Sugar Glider Community Calendar

Please click here to see larger view
Articles
More coming soon!!
Today's Birthdays
Aric, Typhoonkitty, ucf_nurse, WebbKatt
Member Spotlight
None yet
Show All Member Profiles 
Last 10 Posts
It's CAKE TIME !!!!
by Ladymagyver. 05/10/21 07:34 AM
Hi I’m New!
by Feather. 05/03/21 08:30 PM
Bonding time - Together or individual?
by Feather. 04/27/21 09:27 PM
Cloaca irritated? Bladder infection?
by Feather. 04/27/21 09:25 PM
Critter Nation Shelf Pan/Tray Replacement
by Ladymagyver. 04/26/21 11:24 AM
Questions on neuter after care
by cookielover. 04/25/21 08:36 PM
Scratching / Swiping at Mouth
by Feather. 04/24/21 11:51 PM
Vet Visit
by Shalena. 04/23/21 10:22 PM
Difference between fecal smear and float
by KarenE. 04/21/21 09:48 AM
Google+

Facebook
Join Us On Facebook
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Trios... do girls HAVE to be related? #965371
06/28/10 05:45 AM
06/28/10 05:45 AM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,414
Minneapolis, MN
wildlifeangel Offline OP
Glider Slave
wildlifeangel  Offline OP
Glider Slave

Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,414
Minneapolis, MN
So, I was thinking about lineages today. I do understand that trios work out better when the girls are twins. However, since I am and will be limited on space, I was pondering the idea of breeding out or proving out and getting colors in the same cage.

Lets say I had a leu het female born in one cage, a standard girl born in another, and a leu boy, all from my own gliders (all would be fine COIs to breed together). What are the possibilities that they will be okay as a trio as compared to twin girls, even though they all knew me and could meet as joeys and be caged together. (as soon as all are old enough)
How close would the OOPs need to be on the girls? And what extra precautions would I need. Would it be advisable to let them play and cuddle as joeys? Or would that confuse the poor fathers.


This is all hypothetical, and thinking about the next few years, but I thought it would be good information to be shared, because if it were successful, more people could breed out and still get colors while producing hets. Or people could try to prove out low hets and still be getting confirmed colors in the cage.

Just ponder it with me...


Nadine

Adam-Eve
Starsky-Bianca
Gabriel-Charity
Barrington-Bailey
Travis-Rose-Ruby
Justice-Mercy
Natalia-Carmella-Cayden
Minka-Marco
Reagan-Jocelynn
Donnovin-Selina
Kaluah-Keeko-Emily-Monty-Lexy-Kevin-Raven-Skeeter
:rtmo: :leu: :bb: :cream: :plat:

www.tspsugar.com
Re: Trios... do girls HAVE to be related? [Re: wildlifeangel] #965375
06/28/10 07:05 AM
06/28/10 07:05 AM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 4,108
Phoenix AZ
C
chattrbabe Offline
Glider Addict
chattrbabe  Offline
Glider Addict
C

Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 4,108
Phoenix AZ
Well, I don't deal with all of the special color breeding, SO I can't tell you too much on that part. roflmao

I can tell you that I have made several non breeding pairs / trios with older and younger gliders alike. All it took was a bit of patience. smile

I think, if they met as joeys, it would be an even better outcome. Kind of like introducing a puppy to a kitten. As for intros, I will personally say it's a go, but like I said earlier, I'm not with all of the special color breeding... The percentages and het for het and cream for het for leu... it kills me brains!!!! roflmao

Okay, Time for sleeps.... roflmao


Ash
Re: Trios... do girls HAVE to be related? [Re: chattrbabe] #965412
06/28/10 09:13 AM
06/28/10 09:13 AM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,414
Minneapolis, MN
wildlifeangel Offline OP
Glider Slave
wildlifeangel  Offline OP
Glider Slave

Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,414
Minneapolis, MN
hehe, lol. I just want to see some bigger breeders comment, so we can get a perspective on how often it is done, and how well it works... and even how much of an age difference in the girls is acceptable... or ideal.


Nadine

Adam-Eve
Starsky-Bianca
Gabriel-Charity
Barrington-Bailey
Travis-Rose-Ruby
Justice-Mercy
Natalia-Carmella-Cayden
Minka-Marco
Reagan-Jocelynn
Donnovin-Selina
Kaluah-Keeko-Emily-Monty-Lexy-Kevin-Raven-Skeeter
:rtmo: :leu: :bb: :cream: :plat:

www.tspsugar.com
Re: Trios... do girls HAVE to be related? [Re: wildlifeangel] #965427
06/28/10 09:38 AM
06/28/10 09:38 AM
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,276
usa
snowbabygliders Offline
Glider Guardian
snowbabygliders  Offline
Glider Guardian

Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,276
usa
with both my trios it didnt work. first trio were twin sisters. they ended up canabalizing frown so we separated immediately. Now one of the girls has so far an almost oop beautiful joey since separating.

second trio. about 5 weeks apart in age. they had a beautiful joey each first time around, second time around they both had 2 ip. one joey was rejected and two were canabalized due to joey stealing. on top of that they both were stealing joeys so viciously that they both inverted each others pouches. It was a severe inverted and infected pouch for one of them and she may have also lost one of the four nipples. it was an emergency vet visit and an immediate separation. the other girl still had one joey and not as severe of an inverted pouch and her pouch thankfully was able to be put back in right away and her joey is almost ready to go home. We lost three joeys of the four here and almost could have lost the female with the severely infected pouch.:(

Based on this, i wont rehome my joeys to be bred in trios. pet-only trios are fine, and i will never attempt a trio again. I am still stunned that the second trio worked out great the first time around and the second time was awful frown

I dont recommend it. I am actually against it. But oerhaos due to my experience i will forever have a cloud over my head lol. However in saying that there are some trios that have worked out for others. I am just not willing to take that risk when we dont have to take that risk. Pairs are perfectrly acceptable and almost always work out. this is my opinion of course but its always best to be safe than sorry to me.

I hope no one ever has to experience and the pain me and my girls went through. :gluck: if you do decide to do trios i truly hope it works out. this was just my own experience smile



Re: Trios... do girls HAVE to be related? [Re: snowbabygliders] #965438
06/28/10 09:56 AM
06/28/10 09:56 AM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,414
Minneapolis, MN
wildlifeangel Offline OP
Glider Slave
wildlifeangel  Offline OP
Glider Slave

Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,414
Minneapolis, MN
I know you had a tough time with your two trios Kristy hug2 . That is actually part of the reason I am asking this in a forum. I want to collect opinions on how well or poorly the trios work out when the girls are not twins.

At this point, I would be at least a year out of this even if I did go ahead. I just want to gather information so that I can make the most informed decision for my babies as well as lineage. If I can take a leu with a 0.9% COI and breed him with a standard for lineage purposes, while the other girl gives me leus as well... it could be the best of both worlds... if it works out.

I don't want to jump in if there have been many failures, but i don't want to completely forget it if there have been a decent amount that have succeeded.


Last edited by wildlifeangel; 06/28/10 10:53 AM. Reason: failures... not successes twice

Nadine

Adam-Eve
Starsky-Bianca
Gabriel-Charity
Barrington-Bailey
Travis-Rose-Ruby
Justice-Mercy
Natalia-Carmella-Cayden
Minka-Marco
Reagan-Jocelynn
Donnovin-Selina
Kaluah-Keeko-Emily-Monty-Lexy-Kevin-Raven-Skeeter
:rtmo: :leu: :bb: :cream: :plat:

www.tspsugar.com
Re: Trios... do girls HAVE to be related? [Re: wildlifeangel] #965449
06/28/10 10:10 AM
06/28/10 10:10 AM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 644
Cincinnati, OH
tacasper Offline
Glider Guardian
tacasper  Offline
Glider Guardian

Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 644
Cincinnati, OH
I would personally never do a non-related trio again. Mine got along exceptionally as joeys and they all had the same personalities. They grew up together for almost a year before breeding. They got preggo at the same time and carried the joeys full term. Then just before oop, they got snatched and it was devistating.

I have sisters that work out great. They help take care of eachother's joeys. It works out better than my pairs because there is an extra baby-sitter. They get preggo at the same time, so we usually have a FULL cage! They each have twins this time!

I know of someone whose sisters did not work out though. I guess it's just case by case. Me personally, I would never try nonrelated again! I will stick with pairs from now on. There is enough stress breeding pairs, without the extra worries of trios. IMHO!


Teri

Owner of lots of beautiful suggies!
:bb: :wfb: :leu: :rtmo: :cream: :plat:

My fabulous rescue Nanuk
And Kiesha waiting in heaven

And two OCD and neurotic bulldogs Capone and Aspen!


www.sugarhighgliders.com


Re: Trios... do girls HAVE to be related? [Re: wildlifeangel] #965452
06/28/10 10:15 AM
06/28/10 10:15 AM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,748
80 acres of paradise in KS
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
Dancing  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,748
80 acres of paradise in KS
There are so many different things that play into breeding. Pairs obviously minimize the risks of canabalization or rejection but there is still that risk.

I had a quad come to me. Male, Mom, Twin sisters (Mom's daughters). The male was NOT the father of the twin sisters. They had been "successful" with the other breeder. Mom got pregnant and had a single joey. But when the sisters got old enough and came into heat it was an instant disaster for me. The girls came into heat and the male inflicted mating wounds on all three of them. He wounded one of the sisters first and I removed her from the cage. Then the second sister, and I removed her and then the mom (three days in a row). He was neutered (on day 4) He also got all three pregnant. The first sister successfully raised her joey (with my help). The second sister pulled her joey. Mom had twins. Mom's wound was very tiny and I was able to leave her with the male.

What was working at the other home, did NOT work here.


I currently have a trio. Twin sisters and a male. Each sister has had one joey and one currently has twins ip. I know there is a risk. One of the main things (I believe) that determines IF it will work or not is the temperment of the gliders and even the glider's parents. What they learn about parenting as joeys will effect how they will raise their own. All three of these had great loving attentive parents but also my male had an older sister help raise him too. But this trio is a constant worry for me. Honestly, it was NOT done with out a LOT of consideration and thought as to "what will I do if..."

I would not have even attempted this trio if I didn't know the girl's parents and know the temperments of them (and their parents) so well.

The situation you are talking about, I wouldn't even try.


620-704-9109
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.
Re: Trios... do girls HAVE to be related? [Re: Dancing] #965468
06/28/10 10:55 AM
06/28/10 10:55 AM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,414
Minneapolis, MN
wildlifeangel Offline OP
Glider Slave
wildlifeangel  Offline OP
Glider Slave

Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,414
Minneapolis, MN
Originally Posted By: Dancing

The situation you are talking about, I wouldn't even try.


That is what I needed to hear. I know it's not recommended, I just wasn't sure if it was even worth the risk.

Looks like it is not. I will stick to pairs and twin trios.


Nadine

Adam-Eve
Starsky-Bianca
Gabriel-Charity
Barrington-Bailey
Travis-Rose-Ruby
Justice-Mercy
Natalia-Carmella-Cayden
Minka-Marco
Reagan-Jocelynn
Donnovin-Selina
Kaluah-Keeko-Emily-Monty-Lexy-Kevin-Raven-Skeeter
:rtmo: :leu: :bb: :cream: :plat:

www.tspsugar.com
Re: Trios... do girls HAVE to be related? [Re: Dancing] #965473
06/28/10 11:19 AM
06/28/10 11:19 AM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,570
Kansas City, MO
Laurens_Babies Offline
Glider Addict
Laurens_Babies  Offline
Glider Addict

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,570
Kansas City, MO
Originally Posted By: Dancing

What they learn about parenting as joeys will effect how they will raise their own. All three of these had great loving attentive parents but also my male had an older sister help raise him too.


Teresa's girls came from me.. and Teresa I think you may be on to something too! Cause if you remember Hope was with them while they were with their parents. Remember how protective she was over her sissys??? roflmao When they were 2 days oop I went in to check on them and Hope had her arms tight around Joy I have never had problems getting joeys from my parents AND WHAT DOES SHE DO? comes snarling out of that pouch after that baby "GIVE HER BACK!!!!" Yea I found out siblings can be more over protective than my parents.


~Lauren

Lauren's Animal Kingdom
*Website is down temporarily should be back up by November!*
Re: Trios... do girls HAVE to be related? [Re: Laurens_Babies] #966483
06/30/10 12:05 AM
06/30/10 12:05 AM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 20,093
North Central Ohio
GliderNursery Offline
Tech Admn
GliderNursery  Offline
Tech Admn

Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 20,093
North Central Ohio
I currently have 2 cages with trios. One of them are sisters, but not twins ~ they are half sisters. So far, they all get along just fine but haven't had joeys yet.

My second set has non-related females. They were introduced at about 10 weeks and have been together ever since. They both have successfully raised their first set of joeys. They helped each other out and never fought with each other. So...so far, so good.

I had another trio a couple of years ago, it was twin sisters. One cannibalized her first set of joeys ~ that was the worst experience ever! I did let her breed one more time to see if it was just an isolated issue and all the breedings from that point on were successful.

I think there are risks in any type of multi-breeding situation. There are various things that can come into consideration when trying to establish a colony breeding situation.

One thing to consider with non-related females is the lineage. Will you be able to tell the joeys apart to know who the mom is? Remember that both females will help raise the joeys, so just because one is riding a females back doesn't necessarily mean that is the mom to that particular joey! If the moms are sisters, the lines will be the same, if they are non-related the lineage will be different.

Good luck in your decision ~ and kudos for researching it beforehand!


Shelly

Don't sacrifice quality information for convenient information.


Glider Nursery

Sugar Glider Foundation


Re: Trios... do girls HAVE to be related? [Re: GliderNursery] #966517
06/30/10 01:44 AM
06/30/10 01:44 AM
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,269
WI
Glide_Bye_Lily Offline
Glider Guardian
Glide_Bye_Lily  Offline
Glider Guardian

Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,269
WI
We had a trio and while we didn't have the horrible problems kristy had, it did not work out for us either.

The girls were not related, but were introduced at an early age and allowed to live together for quite a long time before the male was introduced to the girls.

Everything went perfectly at first- the older female (by about month) raised her first set of twins with success, with the help of the other female. But the other girl got to be a year old and still did not have joeys IP, we thought something was up but were weren't sure. Some females mature slower than others...

Soon after we noticed this we also noticed the older female becoming increasingly aggressive toward the other female. It got to the point where she wouldn't allow the other female to eat- after it didn't get better we decided to separate the trio. The dominant female had a male joey OOP that was not related to the subordinate-and since the subordinate female helped raise this boy we knew they were bonded, we separated them both into a new cage when he reached 9 weeks OOP.

Shortly after the separation the subordinate female dropped a joey IP. the 9 week old was about 11 weeks old when this happened-testicles were not descended-no bald spot- so we knew it was not him that impregnated her. The only explanations we could think of was that she obviously mated with the male in the other cage and was either dropping joeys IP only to be stolen by the dominant female, or she was holding the joey in stasis until she felt safe enough to birth it.

We ended up with a lovely little joey that has been partly raised by her half brother. smile

We won't do trios ever again because even though we had problems we know it could have ended up so much worse. Trios can and do work out- but it didn't work for us.


Allie

Moderated by  Feather, KarenE, Ladymagyver 

Sugar Glider Help Page



Please click above to see how you can help!!

Moon
CURRENT MOON
Who's Online Now
1 registered members (theresaw), 42 guests, and 351 spiders.
Key: , , Owner, Admin
Newest Members
LasVegasGliders, Pikachu, hyperghost20, sugarglider_spb, Kadence_MJC3
7243 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums132
Topics10,237
Posts158,499
posts in the last 24hrs0
Members7,243
Most Online2,693
Jan 2nd, 2020
Last 10 New Topics
It's CAKE TIME !!!!
by KarenE. 05/09/21 10:11 AM
Hi I’m New!
by Pikachu. 05/02/21 12:21 AM
Cloaca irritated? Bladder infection?
by racheloddment. 04/26/21 12:27 AM
Bonding time - Together or individual?
by Suggie223. 04/25/21 06:53 PM
Critter Nation Shelf Pan/Tray Replacement
by Suggie223. 04/25/21 06:49 PM
Questions on neuter after care
by cookielover. 04/23/21 10:25 PM
Difference between fecal smear and float
by cookielover. 04/20/21 01:09 PM
What to do with different weighted gliders
by cookielover. 04/18/21 01:16 PM
First Time Owner
by lilsuggies. 04/14/21 08:48 PM
Popular Topics(Views)
818,912 TEXAS
651,185 OHIO
457,739 OKLAHOMA
406,325 UTAH
299,606 NORTH CAROLINA
Supported Browser
This site was tested and is best viewed in Google Chrome & Mozilla FireFox



Firefox 3

Download your copy today!!!
Home Forums Links Sitemap Vets Breeders Sounds Contact Us Names Rules & Policies

GliderCENTRAL
©1998-2021
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software
(Release build 20180918)
Page Time: 0.058s Queries: 14 (0.014s) Memory: 1.3453 MB (Peak: 1.5422 MB) Zlib enabled. Server Time: 2021-05-17 01:39:25 UTC