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MY Opinion on Mosaic Mosaic Pairings
#979896
07/23/10 10:54 AM
07/23/10 10:54 AM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,570 Kansas City, MO
Laurens_Babies
OP
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OP
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Posts: 3,570
Kansas City, MO
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Ok a lot of these posts get messy from personal feelings about the poster or REALLY technical people talking about genetics etc. We love to point fingers and say so and so is just out for money blah blah blah, one post I tried to get involved in a member told me flat out I was wrongwhy bother anymore. But now I'm going to talk about what I've seen, what I've done and how I feel. First off, mosaic and mosaic does NOT make 4/4 joeys mosaics. Just ask Kris Nelson she just had two moxmo pairing BOTH produce standard joeys. It happens. I feel like if someone is trying to produce MORE mosaics they have better odds pairing them sepratly and get more joeys. Honestly if you do the numbers anyone wanting to make money off gliders would have twice as many joeys pairing them seprately. Ex. Male mosaic is paired with female mosaic they have say 12 joeys in their lifetime, odds say they will have 75% mosaic that is 9 mosaic joeys and 3 standard/wf etc... Say Male mosaic is pair with wf female they have 12 joeys in their life time odds say they will have 50% mosaic joeys so 6 mosaics 6 standards, then the mosaic female paired with a wf male they will have odds say 6 mosaics 6 standards. In hignsight anyone wanting MONEY is doubling their joeys by pairing these two mosaics sepratly adding their numbers of mosaics born in their homes, etc. And I do know that some mosaic mosaic pairings will produce 100% mosaic that is just the way the cookie crumbles.
Now as for hurting the lines by putting two together and merging the lines, as I've said in other posts we do the same thing by breeding WF and WF together, a color that only needs ONE to produce WF joeys yet we breed them together. My point being that the mosaics are bred out well enough it isn't like breeding leu and leu together.
I'm at work I might have more to add later.
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Re: MY Opinion on Mosaic Mosaic Pairings
[Re: Laurens_Babies]
#979901
07/23/10 11:01 AM
07/23/10 11:01 AM
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,414 Minneapolis, MN
wildlifeangel
Glider Slave
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Glider Slave
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,414
Minneapolis, MN
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I'm sorry I irritated you. I didn't say you were wrong, nor did I mean to imply it. I was voicing my opinion and it is a bit different than yours. I still respect you opinion!
Nadine Adam-Eve Starsky-Bianca Gabriel-Charity Barrington-Bailey Travis-Rose-Ruby Justice-Mercy Natalia-Carmella-Cayden Minka-Marco Reagan-Jocelynn Donnovin-Selina Kaluah-Keeko-Emily-Monty-Lexy-Kevin-Raven-Skeeter www.tspsugar.com
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Re: MY Opinion on Mosaic Mosaic Pairings
[Re: Laurens_Babies]
#979909
07/23/10 11:11 AM
07/23/10 11:11 AM
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,414 Minneapolis, MN
wildlifeangel
Glider Slave
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Glider Slave
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,414
Minneapolis, MN
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oh... okay!
Nadine Adam-Eve Starsky-Bianca Gabriel-Charity Barrington-Bailey Travis-Rose-Ruby Justice-Mercy Natalia-Carmella-Cayden Minka-Marco Reagan-Jocelynn Donnovin-Selina Kaluah-Keeko-Emily-Monty-Lexy-Kevin-Raven-Skeeter www.tspsugar.com
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Re: MY Opinion on Mosaic Mosaic Pairings
[Re: wildlifeangel]
#979977
07/23/10 01:22 PM
07/23/10 01:22 PM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,570 Kansas City, MO
Laurens_Babies
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Kansas City, MO
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Sorry for the rant everyone, I just don't think people are thinking about what the say when they label breeders for having mo on mo. I have a mosaic and mosaic pair up and while I did not get the second because he was a mosaic I think it will be a cool pair up. I NEEDED male and a friend offered a boy who was a good age and lineage with my girl, it was just a side note he was also a mosaic. I truely believe that the mistakes that were made several years ago that caused the lines to be so badly bred and sterility to be caused is in the past. We are so much more educated and aware of what we are doing and the "breeding police" are sure to tell anyone of a bad pair up Breed with intellegence that is the key, yes someone could do a poor pairing but guess what any color that can happen to not just mosaics.
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Re: MY Opinion on Mosaic Mosaic Pairings
[Re: tjlong]
#980005
07/23/10 02:02 PM
07/23/10 02:02 PM
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,192 NC
carolinasuggies
Glider Guardian
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Glider Guardian
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,192
NC
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My babies could come out with purple fuzz and I would love them anyway! LOL! I truely think SOME NOT ALL people are so concerned with color and money they dont think about what's best for the glider's and the lines!
Last edited by carolinasuggies; 07/23/10 02:03 PM.
Mommy to my kid's & slave to my suggies
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Re: MY Opinion on Mosaic Mosaic Pairings
[Re: carolinasuggies]
#980011
07/23/10 02:11 PM
07/23/10 02:11 PM
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,408 Merriam KS
Dani4Hedgies
Glider Slave
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Glider Slave
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,408
Merriam KS
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ohhhh purple gliders NOW that is a color to work toward
Dani Marshall(816)377-4443 Slave to Patrick my Human Son And in service too Queen Jem Drop & King Stripes, New Prince Cristal looking for his Princess/Queen In Memory too Addie,Igor,Heangel,Bashful,Doubledip,Sparky,Misty, King Badger, Badger Jr.,Queen Seabee, Princess Willow.
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Re: MY Opinion on Mosaic Mosaic Pairings
[Re: Dani4Hedgies]
#980021
07/23/10 02:28 PM
07/23/10 02:28 PM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 4,645 Ohio
Guerita135
Glider Addict
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Glider Addict
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 4,645
Ohio
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I wouldn't think that there's anything WRONG with pairing 2 mosaics, just so long as they are a good pairing. Honestly though, it's pointless. As you said, they won't necessarily produce more mosaics. I got lucky, my mosaic boy is paired with a gray(cremino het) and they've had 6 out of 6 mosaics so far!
~Nicole~ Proudly enslaved by lots of silly suggies, 3 crazy kitties, a huffy hedgie, and a pretty puppy!
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Re: MY Opinion on Mosaic Mosaic Pairings
[Re: Guerita135]
#980047
07/23/10 03:39 PM
07/23/10 03:39 PM
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,749 80 acres of paradise in KS
Dancing
Glideritis Anonymous
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Glideritis Anonymous
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,749
80 acres of paradise in KS
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Ok, I'm going to say this again. if you have a mo and something else paired then 50% SHOULD be mo. This is not right. It doesn't mean 50% SHOULD be mo, it means each joey born has a 50% CHANCE of being a mo. The percentages are for each individual joey, not over all averages.
620-704-9109 Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.
I could have missed the pain But I'd of had to miss the dance
The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.
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Re: MY Opinion on Mosaic Mosaic Pairings
[Re: Dancing]
#980064
07/23/10 04:33 PM
07/23/10 04:33 PM
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GoGoGliders
Unregistered
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GoGoGliders
Unregistered
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I agree with you Teresa....I have Brando (leu) and Sevin (100% leu het) and they went 6 pairs of joeys before they gave me another leu.....the genes fall where the genes fall, all the percentages in the world are just the POSSIBILITY of producing a color
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Re: MY Opinion on Mosaic Mosaic Pairings
[Re: tjlong]
#980267
07/23/10 10:11 PM
07/23/10 10:11 PM
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,749 80 acres of paradise in KS
Dancing
Glideritis Anonymous
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Glideritis Anonymous
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,749
80 acres of paradise in KS
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Tracy, I didn't mean to single you out. I see it posted this way all the time and it is unintentionally misleading.
Those that don't know "how it works" will believe if they have 4 joeys, atleast 2 will be mosaic and it just doesn't work that way at all. (unfortunately). Because it is the individual chance for each glider, the pair could have 12 joeys and none of them be mosaic. Or they could all be mosaic. Or anywhere in between. But EACH individual has a chance to be.
It is like with neutering. There is a 50% chance the male will self mutilate. Simply put, either he (an individual) will or he won't. 50/50. But that doesn't mean that 50% of all males being neutered will self mutilate. (I think it is probably more like maybe 1-5% will and that can be reduced to 0% with owner diligence)
It all gets so confusing sometimes!
620-704-9109 Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.
I could have missed the pain But I'd of had to miss the dance
The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.
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Re: MY Opinion on Mosaic Mosaic Pairings
[Re: Dancing]
#980301
07/23/10 11:10 PM
07/23/10 11:10 PM
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,710 Washington
tjlong
Glider Slave
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Glider Slave
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,710
Washington
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Not a problem Teresa! How about this explanation; Every joey has a little set of dice and gets to roll them. Whatever comes up is what that joey gets. It isn't the parents rolling to see how many joeys are mo and how many aren't or leu and leu het. Each joey gets his or her own roll. Is that clearer? I like dice games.
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Re: MY Opinion on Mosaic Mosaic Pairings
[Re: tjlong]
#980422
07/24/10 09:17 AM
07/24/10 09:17 AM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,839 roseville, mi
hwh4ev
Glider Addict
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Glider Addict
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,839
roseville, mi
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since i deal craps, i love your dice theory.
regards, nancy in detroit
regards, nancy in roseville (formerly in detroit)
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Re: MY Opinion on Mosaic Mosaic Pairings
[Re: hwh4ev]
#980425
07/24/10 09:25 AM
07/24/10 09:25 AM
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,414 Minneapolis, MN
wildlifeangel
Glider Slave
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Glider Slave
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,414
Minneapolis, MN
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Very true... I think some of us forget that it is a selection for each joey... such as what gender the joeys will be.
I forget about the odds not being exact because my WF female has 4 standards and 4 WF's. But then I remember again when I think about the fact that she only had 2 girls of those 8!
Nadine Adam-Eve Starsky-Bianca Gabriel-Charity Barrington-Bailey Travis-Rose-Ruby Justice-Mercy Natalia-Carmella-Cayden Minka-Marco Reagan-Jocelynn Donnovin-Selina Kaluah-Keeko-Emily-Monty-Lexy-Kevin-Raven-Skeeter www.tspsugar.com
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Re: MY Opinion on Mosaic Mosaic Pairings
[Re: wildlifeangel]
#980435
07/24/10 10:32 AM
07/24/10 10:32 AM
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NGS
Unregistered
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NGS
Unregistered
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So am I unstanding this right?
Its now ok to breed Mosaic to Mosaic?
Its now ok to breed Leu to Leu?
Just as long as you have a good lineage?
Is that what everyone is saying here and on the other post?
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Re: MY Opinion on Mosaic Mosaic Pairings
[Re: ]
#980462
07/24/10 11:59 AM
07/24/10 11:59 AM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,570 Kansas City, MO
Laurens_Babies
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OP
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Posts: 3,570
Kansas City, MO
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So am I unstanding this right?
Its now ok to breed Mosaic to Mosaic?
Its now ok to breed Leu to Leu?
Just as long as you have a good lineage?
Is that what everyone is saying here and on the other post?
I don't agree with breeding leu to leu but because the lines are getting bred out more some people are reconsidering. For as long as I've seen mosaic to mosaic threads (I've been here over 3 years) mosaic to mosaic is a split decision. Most have agreed that there is nothing genetically wrong with it as long as you use common sense but there has been a nasty stigma attached to it that breeders that do it are only in for money, thats what I'm trying to address in this thread.
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Re: MY Opinion on Mosaic Mosaic Pairings
[Re: Laurens_Babies]
#980477
07/24/10 12:33 PM
07/24/10 12:33 PM
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,749 80 acres of paradise in KS
Dancing
Glideritis Anonymous
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Glideritis Anonymous
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,749
80 acres of paradise in KS
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Personally, I think regardless of what color the gliders are, the choices of who to pair together should be based on the family trees of the two gliders.
Color shouldn't be the deciding factor.
If you have two mosaics that are unrelated...I see nothing wrong.
620-704-9109 Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.
I could have missed the pain But I'd of had to miss the dance
The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.
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Re: MY Opinion on Mosaic Mosaic Pairings
[Re: Dancing]
#980490
07/24/10 12:54 PM
07/24/10 12:54 PM
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,305 Florida, USA
oakley
Glider Slave
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Glider Slave
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,305
Florida, USA
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Teresa, I couldn't agree with you more.
Meghan ~__/> {{ }}
Suggies: Basil, Mausi, Bagheera/Baloo, & the Trio Dogs : Pretzel/Snickers Horse: Nugget RIP: Gato, Pepito, Pepper, and Mowgli Oakley's Glider Site
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Re: MY Opinion on Mosaic Mosaic Pairings
[Re: oakley]
#980521
07/24/10 02:09 PM
07/24/10 02:09 PM
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,871 kentucky
ssdreamsicles
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Glider Slave
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Posts: 1,871
kentucky
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I agree with Dancing. The gliders lines should be looked at. If you have to good lines of mo's that are non related and would make a great match then great. Now i see nothing wrong with this at all. My only concern is there are some people that do not pick apart the lines and put enough thought into pedagrees they just see a pretty glider and the money they could make. If that person gets a glider from a mo/mo pairing they may then say hey i want to put this baby with a mo to better my chances! Well what if this keeps happening? Then you screw up good lines. But thus being said this can happen with any color line. I have no prob with any color being put togeather as long as the lines are looked at.
I am very very OCD about my lines and i go as far as to talk to the person who is buying my joey about lines i do not think would be good therefor i do not want the joey bred to that line. For example: Hades and persephone both have one glider in there lines. One is like 3rd gen and one farther back. The pairing is ok but i do not feel that it would be a good match if anyone pairs there joeys back to a glider with that line. After i explain to them why i do not feel it would be a good match they have been very understanding and have no prob with it.
Anyways im getting off the path. All in all my thought is as long as the pairing is a good one color does not matter but i think at the same time we need to educate anyone buying a joey to breed on why pairing a joey from a mo/mo line to another mo/mo would not be such a good idea if we want to keep lines good same with any other line.
Last edited by ssdreamsicles; 07/24/10 02:10 PM.
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Re: MY Opinion on Mosaic Mosaic Pairings
[Re: jacknsally]
#980934
07/25/10 10:40 AM
07/25/10 10:40 AM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,570 Kansas City, MO
Laurens_Babies
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OP
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Posts: 3,570
Kansas City, MO
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I'm going to post my and Nancy's replies from another thread cause it applies in here, and THIS is the subject no leu / leu that I care about. Wouldn't this apply to wf to wf lion to lion etc etc even grey to grey? I don't know a thing about genetics but I'm assuming the issues come up because of the inbreeding behind developing the non-natural colors. So I would think it has to do with breeding the inbred genetics back to inbred genetics. Not the same as breeding a natural to a natural. Ok but I would easily say that WF has just as many if not more messy inbred sources than leu and mosaic lines. So why breed WF to WF again like with mosaics you only need one to produce the color. I see no genetic difference. Out of matching with my gliders the only problems I've ever had is the WF lines messing up my cois. But Leu on Leu you can't get a leu out of just one and they didn't have the same sterility problem as mosaics did, messy lines but it took EXTREME practices to get sterile line mosaics and now because of when sterile line mosaics WERE bred we have old sterility in plenty of WF lineage. I guess my bottom line (and I'll have to move this and your posts to my mo mo thread is that I see absolutely no difference between breeding wf to wf and breeding mosaic to mosaic. We have a lot of good clean lines out there and arguably better lineages in mosaics then some WF's. My point is mosaic x mosaic; wf x wf the only difference is mosaic are high priced gliders. Sorry but I think this has to do with people judgments on breeders and thinking they are just in it for money.
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