If she was doing worse, I'm sure the vet would've contacted her. But nobody deserves to go through this.
=(

So sorry :'(

Laura I know this is a very tough day for you, you have no time to mourn the loss of your Jorn and Trinity, as you are so worried about Lilly and the remaining gliders, please know our prayers and sympathies are with you throughout all of this. If you need someone to yell and scream at just call..

You will never believe this. Talked to the vet.... actually drove over there to check on my baby. They said it was aflatoxin
.... But Lily is RECOVERING! She is gaining her coordination back, eating from a syringe and everything! They sent her home, since there really is nothing they can do for her. I have to keep her in my shirt or on a heating pad to regulate her body temp, but she is alive and seems to be doing MUCH better!

Is there a possiblity that she will recover from this? Bourbon, please PM me your number, or call my cell... I tried the number that came up on my caller id, and they acted like i am nuts, lol

All the other gliders are doing fine too.... No signs in them what so ever... I pulled them all out one by one, and we are doing good!

Scrooling back up to see what the pellets are ...



Edit ... i do not see that you indicated what they are ...
so sorry for your loss, glad you have one healing and now know what the issue was .... can you let us know what the pellets are..

Glad to here Lily is doing better. Do they know what caused the alfatoxin?

I'm so sorry for your loss, but glad to hear that Lily came home. She is my prayers, as are you - hope she is able to pull through. I'm glad to hear that none of your other babies seem to have this!

Where did the aflatoxins come from? Do you know?

So glad to here Lily is pulling through, and sorry about the loss of your other babies. Will be sending thoughts you way today for a full recovery.

Awwwh that's great!
=D
I'm glad to hear she is doing better. I hope she continues to improve. What a good glider mom you are.
=)

Laura...they can slow it down, but they can't stop it. Bourbon will know which meds to ask for. The damage can't be undone and the toxin cannot be eliminated from the body. You may want to try daily milk thistle to improve liver function, among others. This kills the liver over time, among other things-its a very nasty, very slow moving and insidious toxin. I'm so sorry for your babies that didn't make it. I hope Lily continues to improve.

Here's a few links on Aflatoxins (or Aspergillis fungi) to sort of give an understanding of what it is, and what it does.

http://www.aflatoxin.info/aflatoxin.asp

http://www.ansci.cornell.edu/plants/toxicagents/aflatoxin/aflatoxin.html#Aflatoxicosis

http://wellvet.com/aflatoxins.html

And this one has a link for a possible antidote, and supportive care:

http://www.cbwinfo.com/Biological/Toxins/aflatoxins.html

^ B...I think this is the one you were asking me about-I just found it again.

Slow deterioration of the liver is going to be the gliders biggest battle, if any others were exposed. The milk thistle is what Chronos took to help improve his liver function.

My vet also mentioned a drug called Urekelin (and I don't know if that's spelled right) to thin the bile, and make it easier for the body to process-I'm not sure if that applied to the gall bladder primarily though, so you'd want to ask a vet.

Another herbal compound he mentioned that we thought of trying to also work directly on the liver and improve function was called SamE.

I can't give dosages, as like any other med they need to be based on weight, but if you want to try them, and your vet is willing, here's my vet's number for consult:

Parrish Creek Veterinary Clinic
Dr. Douglas Folland
86 N 70 W
Centerville, UT 84014
801-298-2213

Also note that these can't 'fix' the damage...it can improve performance of the organ, make the glider more comfortable, and hopefully extend life.

Do they know which food was the source of the fungus?

wow. I hope they can figure out what it is from. I would think if it was from the food, All of your gliders would have been infected. I hope Lily continues to do well.

Not necessarily. If it was in the biscuits, there may have been spots of it, and some may not have ingested the actual mold or spores. This can play hit and miss, though with a common food source all of them are at risk.

OK, Here I go.... I am going to try to keep this as professional and unemotional as possible after going through what i have in the past 36 hours... Please excuse the spelling....

Last night lily took a turn for the worse. I told Bourbon and Peggy, as I was on the phone with them when i noticed her. They had me take in EVERYTHING i possibly could to have tests run. I took in the mealie farms, the pellets, the vitamins, the remainder of the diet batch... Everything. They ran multiple tests on all of this. They are doing a necropsy on Jorn for actual results of the cause of his death.

Preliminary results showed level 4 traces of aflatoxin in the pellets(level 20 will kill a cow). The pellets i had were called Premium Sugar Glider diet (or Sugar Glider Cereal) and manufactured by Briskys. I am not sure where the pellets became infected with aflatoxin. It could have been at the manufacturer, the packaging company, the distributor, at my home, or in transit from one place to another. We don't know, and I WILL NOT place blame on anyone for this. I had them stored in the fridge, and have been feeding them since i got them. I am posting this to help anyone else that may be experiencing problems with these pellets, not to bash anyone.

There are not currently any tests that we know of that can prove that a glider has aflatoxosis. There is no cure, the only thing we can do is regulate their diet eliminating as much fat and iron as possible. All of my gliders are being put on a special diet, that does not include any insects or traditional treats.

At this point, we don't know if lily is going to make it. She cannot regulate her body temperature, so I have to keep her warm at all times. We don't even know if she will ever be able to regulate her temperature again. I have been hand feeding her every hour to watch how she is doing... So far so good. She does get ansy with me, and wants to go play, but after only a few minutes, she is ice cold again, and I have to warm her back up. I am working on devizing an incubator to put in her cage to give her the best of both worlds... I may in the long run, have to build her a special cage that holds heat more like a terrarium to help regulate her body temperature, but that is down the road when we will know more about what her ultimate outcome will be.

This demon has taken two of my beloved babies... I WILL NOT let it take any more lives. I refuse to give into this thing.

I would like to thank all of you for your help, prayers and thoughts. You have all been there for me when i hit rock bottom. I thank you sooo much! You all mean the world to me. The next few weeks for all of my gliders will be touch and go. Please keep them in your prayers!

what are the vitamins that you think are bad?

&& && more sent your way to you && your little ones

Fliptout-it's not the vitamins (it would be whichever ones are used with Priscilla Price's diet)...she was just saying she took EVERYTHING to find a source. Here is the culprit so far:



Laura, you know all our prayers are with your little ones. Please read my post earlier, and see if those meds might be able to help (aflatoxins do affect the liver, and it's what those help with). Keep us updated on your babies, and thank you for the information.

ok thank you so much

Thank you all for being there for me. If it wasn't for this board, Lily would be gone, as I am sure the rest of my babies would be too.

Laura, I can only imagine how terrifing,overwelming and heart-breaking this is for you. I'm terribly, terribly, sorry. We are all here for you, so please lean on us. You will NEVER cry alone!! ~Stac

It's my understanding, from asking some questions just now, that at Level 4, this very, very likely came with the food. That is a LOT of toxin. I would let Brisky's know...and is there a chance you can post the numbers off the packaging you have (or the vet has)?

Know that the aflatoxin is the byproduct of the fungus...not the fungus itself.

I am so sorry for your losses.....and we are keeping you in our prayers....

Is your vet notifying Brisky's and the appropriate gov agencies so that product testing can be done and product recalls issued if necessary?

You are very right that the contamination could have occurred anywhere in the food production, storage or delivery chain.

However, you now know that the fungus that produces aflatoxin has most likely been in your fridge......For the safety of you and your family, I would remove all food from the fridge, and discard any that is not tightly sealed.....and disinfect the entire interior of the fridge....making sure to get all little cracks and crevasses and hidden areas.... the fungus will survive in the fridge....foods should be tightly sealed to prevent cross contamination...foods that will be stored for more than a few days should be frozen....

The fungi that produce aflatoxins are very common in our environment.... have you ever opened an ear of corn and seen that the end of it was pink?.....or found a pink scum in the bottom of the fridge...under the produce drawer?....that is the fungus that produces aflatoxin....

on the other hand if you open the ear of corn and there are little worms in it .....it is probably ok....lol....it is the pink fungus that produces the aflatoxin...so dont eat the pink corn...

Please keep us posted on Lilly's condition....

I have put you on our prayer tree...

Godspeed

Is the "Primium Sugar Glider diet" the stuff sold by exotic nutriton...and I only thought that they made it? - or does it just have the same name?

I am very sorry that you had to go through this, just know Lily has a great suggie mommy who is doing everything possible for her. You did a great thing by going to the vet and putting them before your wallet (I'm pretty sure that wasn't very cheap) if only more people were so caring.

Keeping you in thoughts and prayers, along with all your little ones.

Yes it is probably the Exotic Nutrition, she purchased it from someone else that repackaged it, so she does not have the lot numbers.

here are some links , to help you understand the aflatoxins better

Aflatoxins
http://www.sugarglider.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/115623/page/88#Post115623

Aflatoxin - Preliminary results
http://www.sugarglider.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/115735/page/88#Post115735

aflatoxin a summary 10/03/01
http://www.sugarglider.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/4938/page/88#Post4938

Aflatoxin and alternative cricket diet by Pockets
http://www.sugarglider.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/4957/page/67#Post4957

Aflatoxin- What it looks like on a necropsy
http://www.sugarglider.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/745/page/88#Post745

I have a bag of premium glider diet purchased from exotic nutrition, there are NO lot numbers on the bag.

Laura,
I am so sorry, know that you and your babies are in our thoughts and prayers.

Laura

Laura,
I'm so very sorry that you've had to go through this entire ordeal. Thank you for being so thorough in getting everything tested and for sharing the results with us here. Know that you are in our thoughts & prayers and if there's anything we can do to help, just ask...

If it's the exotic nutrition stuff, I have a bag of this that I purchased from Pricilla. Anyone using the Pricilla's diet should be aware of this. Luckily, my guys wouldn't touch the stuff. I wonder if it has one of the recalled pet food ingredients in it.

Thank you everyone again for your support. I could not get through this without all of you. Lily is doing MUCH better this morning. She ate very well last night. I wrapped a heated blanket around the bottom of her cage last night to keep her warm, and it worked well. Her temp is still up and she is starting to act more like herself. She is still only eating about 1-2cc's at a time, but I am feeding her every hour to make sure she gets what she needs to get. Everyone else is doing fine and not showing any simptoms of the toxin

The pellets are originally manufactured by brisky's but repackaged and sold by several distributors

OMG, Laura!!!! I'm just devistated!!!!
I'm SO sorry I haven't been here to at least send my love and prayers.
I have to ask, is there a risk that Kumar could have it via Trinity's milk?? I've had him 11 days now and he's been eating well and crabby as ever. He is on bml now.
I'm so sorry, Laura. I just can't tell you how upset I am over your babies. Wish I were closer so I could be there to help.