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Re: Breeding for Vanity or the "Good of the Glider"? [Re: VegemiteKid] #1149715
07/22/11 12:56 PM
07/22/11 12:56 PM
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 84
Thailand
V
VegemiteKid Offline OP
Joey Member
VegemiteKid  Offline OP
Joey Member
V

Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 84
Thailand
Now this is a discussion. I apolgise if some of the long term members with big tread posts took offense at anything said here.

That was not intended. I was more disappointed that after my initial re-post, that there had been 36 views of a topic that I thought was worthy of a decent conversation. Because people couldn't do a simple reply of "How cute" or "big hugz" or "lol" replies or any other such fluff which, however nice it is, just fills space. I am looking for flame/troll free conversation about important topics.

My main point, is that I have never seen a glider who isn't cute or gorgeous in their own way. I just don't understand why its felt necessary to breed for specific colors when every glider is gorgeous. They don't care what color they are, why should we? What's wrong with naturally occurring colors? Sure, rare lines pop up in the natural scheme of things but why are we concentrating on these lines?

As I said this post is for discussion. Not flaming or trolling.


Australian Expat in Thailand

:grey: Milo
:grey: Coffee
Re: Breeding for Vanity or the "Good of the Glider"? [Re: hwh4ev] #1149720
07/22/11 01:06 PM
07/22/11 01:06 PM
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 355
TN
AliceDoll Offline
Glider Lover
AliceDoll  Offline
Glider Lover

Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 355
TN
Originally Posted By: hwh4ev
alicedoll,
no, it doesnt make you a bad person for getting a leu, we all have our own tastes.
congratulations, i think the leus are adorable.

regards,
nancy in detroit


Thankyou Nancy! I feel in love with her before I even have had the chance to meet her! I find it funny how she's already becoming one of the centers of my entire world XD She's not even here yet! haha


:leu: - Minnie , :plat: /Mosaic - Alto
Re: Breeding for Vanity or the "Good of the Glider"? [Re: VegemiteKid] #1149723
07/22/11 01:20 PM
07/22/11 01:20 PM
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 355
TN
AliceDoll Offline
Glider Lover
AliceDoll  Offline
Glider Lover

Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 355
TN
Originally Posted By: VegemiteKid


My main point, is that I have never seen a glider who isn't cute or gorgeous in their own way.


Of course! This is such a true statement! ALL gliders are special and beautiful!


Originally Posted By: VegemiteKid
What's wrong with naturally occurring colors? Sure, rare lines pop up in the natural scheme of things but why are we concentrating on these lines?


Have you ever studied genetics by any chance? No matter the animal/plant/etc -- the dominant genes are going to show up first. All gliders would be grey/black -- since that is the dominant trait. In order to have variety in color, you're going to have to pair recessive genes with recessive genes. Which is where most breeders -- experienced ones -- are coming in to help.

Originally Posted By: VegemiteKid
As I said this post is for discussion. Not flaming or trolling.


I haven't seen any Flaming or Trolling in this thread at all! Everyone has been, actually, nice -- stating their own opinions with little to no snark what-so-ever! thumb

I have to ask though, did you have a bad experience with a breeder?? Not all breeders are money-grubbers. smile





:leu: - Minnie , :plat: /Mosaic - Alto
Re: Breeding for Vanity or the "Good of the Glider"? [Re: VegemiteKid] #1149726
07/22/11 01:29 PM
07/22/11 01:29 PM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 853
US
SugarGliderLove Offline
Glider Guardian
SugarGliderLove  Offline
Glider Guardian

Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 853
US
you know 7 years ago or so people didnt care about linage. I am content with my gliders not having linage. and if my gliders breed so be it. because of people like you hwh4ev is why I have considered leaving this site.

Re: Breeding for Vanity or the "Good of the Glider"? [Re: SugarGliderLove] #1149728
07/22/11 01:32 PM
07/22/11 01:32 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,748
80 acres of paradise in KS
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
Dancing  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,748
80 acres of paradise in KS
Originally Posted By: dpinkie03
you know 7 years ago or so people didnt care about linage.


This is only partially true. But since then, we have learned and have seen first hand what inbreeding can do (wiggle babies). We as a whole have progressed and are more interested in doing everything we can to better the health of the gliders. We have become less selfish in our breeding choices.

It would be a shame to go backwards now.


620-704-9109
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.
Re: Breeding for Vanity or the "Good of the Glider"? [Re: VegemiteKid] #1149742
07/22/11 02:04 PM
07/22/11 02:04 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,839
roseville, mi
H
hwh4ev Offline
Glider Addict
hwh4ev  Offline
Glider Addict
H

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,839
roseville, mi
dpinkie03,
dont leave because of people like me trying to help you
understand the importance of lineage.
you made your thougts known and because you didnt like my
answer you want to leave? maybe you should just do a little more investigative work here on gc and stick
around. this is a great forum to learn abt. important
info regarding breeding.

regards,
nancy in detroit


regards,
nancy in roseville (formerly in detroit)
Re: Breeding for Vanity or the "Good of the Glider"? [Re: VegemiteKid] #1149744
07/22/11 02:07 PM
07/22/11 02:07 PM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 853
US
SugarGliderLove Offline
Glider Guardian
SugarGliderLove  Offline
Glider Guardian

Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 853
US
Its not just because of you. and if i choose to leave its cause I want to and not cause of people! and Its cause I am tried of being attacked when ever I say anything on here.

Re: Breeding for Vanity or the "Good of the Glider"? [Re: SugarGliderLove] #1149748
07/22/11 02:21 PM
07/22/11 02:21 PM
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 355
TN
AliceDoll Offline
Glider Lover
AliceDoll  Offline
Glider Lover

Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 355
TN
Originally Posted By: dpinkie03
Its not just because of you. and if i choose to leave its cause I want to and not cause of people! and Its cause I am tried of being attacked when ever I say anything on here.


:/ I don't see how you're being attacked. Honestly --


:leu: - Minnie , :plat: /Mosaic - Alto
Re: Breeding for Vanity or the "Good of the Glider"? [Re: VegemiteKid] #1149749
07/22/11 02:21 PM
07/22/11 02:21 PM
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 157
WA
Dee Offline
Joey Member
Dee  Offline
Joey Member

Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 157
WA
Ok I am posting here knowing full well I may end up trashed here... But I am honest (not saying others aren't honest).

When I got my first pair of giders I could not afford to get the colors due to expense. Trust me I loved the color of the Mo's. My first pair I paid a reasonable price and recieve a classic and WT, they wer from out of state. One of them was not a canidate for breeding so I got a beautiful boy that also had issues and neutered him, he was in state. They are now a happy loved non breeding trio. Since I don't know wether the issues are genetic for sure or if it was enviromental I will not breed these guys. I don't want to risk continuing health issues, some people would agree with this line of thinking.

My second pair of gliders were incredibly pretty that I got a screaming deal on, they came from out of state. I am extremely excited at the possiblities of what could come from them depending on the male I add with them.

I love all my gliders and I become emotionally attached to each and everyone of them, even ones that I don't have yet. I have not bred yet but I am looking forward to breeding I am excited about the possiblities of colors and personalities.

With that said I also am looking at this as a hobby I love my gliders but yeah if I can make a little money also to help support my "hobby" I don't see anything wrong with that. These babies are addicting not just the colors but wanting to give them new toys cage sets and such. If the gliders can help pay for themselves I think that is a great thing. If they can't that is ok too because I love them!

Also the area I live in is not known for breeders or even glider owners. I think with having responsible breeders in the area, no matter what the color it will only help the gliders. breeders are usually the ones that reach out or are contacted for information for new owners. There are people out there that don't want to pay shipping cost to here. So you see on craig lists little babies cheap and these new owners have no idea what they are getting into. We may see gliders on CL once a month or so and I have only seen one person on there that I believe may be responsible all the others are rescues and I mean serious rescues. So having breeders up here that have all colors I believe would be a good thing and less shipping all over the US.


Dee

Wife for 17 years
Mom to two awesome boys two pitbull mixes Allie & Bailey
Re: Breeding for Vanity or the "Good of the Glider"? [Re: Dancing] #1149752
07/22/11 02:26 PM
07/22/11 02:26 PM
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 5,363
Ok
Sheila Offline
Serious Glideritis
Sheila  Offline
Serious Glideritis

Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 5,363
Ok
I would say it is important to look at the heart of the breeder. I was one of the first colored breeders in the USA. I am not going to boast about what I have done here as far as loving my animals and providing good homes for them, but I know that my heart is pure when it comes to gliders. When I recognize someone with a sincere heart, they will get my babies for free. I think colored breeders are categorized as being greedy. I do believe some breeders only want beautiful colored gliders for show on their websites. I believe that when they go to events with other glider owners they only bring with them their "prettiest" gliders to show off. What I intended to do from the beginning was to bring in from Canada, unusual colors and breed them safely to preserve the line. I cannot control where people's hearts are. People that I sold to in the beginning, I might refuse to let them have one of my babies now because I see how the sale of their joeys is their livelyhood. I see that they do not use good business ethics when it comes to selling their gliders, or how they trample over other breeders to get the sale. I don't believe in making glider sales a business. If it is a hobby, make sure it stays that way. When making money becomes more important than gliders, you should not be selling them. There are many who use the sale of their gliders to pay electric bills and house payments. I don't believe in that because if sales suffer, quess what, the glider suffers as well. I might sound bitter about this and I guess you can say that I am. I have been around a long time and have seen what has happened to this community and it saddens me greatly. cry


ToandFro Gliders

http://www.toandfrogliders.com

USDA Licensed breeder for 12 years and counting!

WE SELL THE STEALTH WHEEL
Re: Breeding for Vanity or the "Good of the Glider"? [Re: Sheila] #1149759
07/22/11 02:41 PM
07/22/11 02:41 PM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 211
La Crosse, WI
Jos Offline
Glider Explorer
Jos  Offline
Glider Explorer

Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 211
La Crosse, WI
Dpinkie, I hate to think that anyone here is coming across as attacking. You stated your thoughts, I stated mine, just as Nancy stated hers. Just because they don't meet doesn't mean you're being attacked, merely that we disagree.

I know where all my animals come from. I can trace my pomeranian's lines for 10 generations, I know where he came from and I'm glad I do. It helps me see what defects he's prone for. If I didn't know, how would I know if his parents had displaced Knees? or if his grandfather had respitory problems. I wouldn't.

I learned about the Wiggle Babies by accident, and it's not knowning or caring who was related to who that caused such a problem in these sweet fuzzbutts. I reccommend looking up the videos on them, it truely is sad that these gliders have a neurological problem because of human selfishness when it comes to breeding and keeping track of what you breed. We're just trying to show you *why* we believe your male should be neutered, not force you off the board.

This is a place for learning and growing as glider slaves, I wouldn't have known about a lot of stuff, diet especially, if I hadn't come here, and I made mistakes but I took even the most brunt and brutally honest opinions for what they are, information that I should take heed of. That's what people here try to do, help you by being completely honest.


Mom to

Ivory (husky mix)6/2006 - 12/23/2009 RIP babygirl
Punk (Pomeranian)
:wfb: Jazz, Rock, & Roll, Trance and Rave (oop 7-15-2011)!
:leu: My sweet little Swing
Re: Breeding for Vanity or the "Good of the Glider"? [Re: VegemiteKid] #1149763
07/22/11 02:51 PM
07/22/11 02:51 PM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 853
US
SugarGliderLove Offline
Glider Guardian
SugarGliderLove  Offline
Glider Guardian

Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 853
US
I see why people think I should get him neutered and I dont want to get him neutered and i dont have to and i have my reasons why i dont want to and i dont have to prove my reason why. Alot of you guys dont know the emails and comment I have gotten on my personal email and on my website. with that being said I would like to not be mentioned on this topic anymore and if you got anything to say to me pm me and i might answer you.

Re: Breeding for Vanity or the "Good of the Glider"? [Re: VegemiteKid] #1149768
07/22/11 03:12 PM
07/22/11 03:12 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 20,093
North Central Ohio
GliderNursery Offline
Tech Admn
GliderNursery  Offline
Tech Admn

Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 20,093
North Central Ohio
Originally Posted By: VegemiteKid
My main point, is that I have never seen a glider who isn't cute or gorgeous in their own way. I just don't understand why its felt necessary to breed for specific colors when every glider is gorgeous. They don't care what color they are, why should we? What's wrong with naturally occurring colors? Sure, rare lines pop up in the natural scheme of things but why are we concentrating on these lines?


First, consider that in the wild, a leucistic glider probably wouldn't survive as long as a grey glider. It would be a predatorial target! That's why I think that there are not many gliders of color in the wild.

With that being said, by us putting two gliders together, we haven't created these colors. The genetics were already there.

Why do we do it? The same reason some would select a bull dog while I prefer border collies. They're both dogs, so what's the difference? The difference is personal preference.

And quite honestly, because people want them. Regardless of the price we as breeders charge, it's a matter of supply and demand. As long as there is a desire for a leu, plat, or mo, there will be breeders for them.

Responsible breeding is IMO the only way to breed. Not doing so will result in problems with future offspring, and very likely will make it difficult to find homes for joeys.

New blood is needed to continue good genetics. If new blood does not get introduced into a breeding program, you eventually get a genetic circle. Not good. So a breeder needs to know and understand a lot before they take on that responsiblity.

Further, the breeder needs to be able to explain everything to the new owners of their joeys. It's not enough that you are being a responsible breeder. You have to educate and share that knowledge. Otherwise, your near genetically perfect joey could be paired with its aunt/uncle/cousin!

Determining Genetic Compatibility in Gliders


Shelly

Don't sacrifice quality information for convenient information.


Glider Nursery

Sugar Glider Foundation


Re: Breeding for Vanity or the "Good of the Glider"? [Re: GliderNursery] #1149813
07/22/11 04:40 PM
07/22/11 04:40 PM
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 43,249
LittleRock, AR USA
KarenE Offline
Owner
KarenE  Offline
Owner

Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 43,249
LittleRock, AR USA
This will be the only Rule 4 Warning posted in this thread. Some of you seen to have forgotten the rules you agreed to when you registered and checked that box.

If you don't like the way our board is run, the advice you are given when you ask or the time it takes for your post to be answered, you are free to find another more suitable forum.

Rule 4. GliderCENTRAL is a family oriented "G" rated board. Be polite, courteous and respectful to other board members at all times. This means illegal substances, illegal activities, flaming, sexually explicit subjects, cursing, spamming, harassing, policing, diet bashing, and abusive or negative personal posts are not allowed. Posts and sometimes entire topics that contain such content will be removed, and the poster(s) may be warned, suspended or banned at the discretion of the board administrators. Abuse, flaming or inappropriate comments directed toward GliderCENTRAL, its Moderators and Administrators, or failure to comply with the direction of a Moderator or Administrator, the poster(s) may be warned, suspended or banned at the discretion of the board administrators. Please keep any personal matters off the board. Take it to email or pm. Please keep in mind that board rules do apply when using the PM feature. Since we are a G rated board, the decision has been made not to allow any web blog links like below due to non G rated material on them.


Your Sugar Glider Resource Center
Sugar Glider Help


Re: Breeding for Vanity or the "Good of the Glider"? [Re: GliderNursery] #1149847
07/22/11 05:22 PM
07/22/11 05:22 PM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 978
Dutchess County, NY
Biscuit Offline
Glider Guardian
Biscuit  Offline
Glider Guardian

Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 978
Dutchess County, NY
Shelly - I was thinking the same thing... Some people prefer black labs while others prefer yellow labs. right?



~ Laurie ~
Mother to

:wfb: Topanga, :grey: Biscuit, Toby, :leu: Thor & :plat: Akiah [Kiah]


www.lauriessugglettes.weebly.com

gangel My Lost Loves, Rascal, March 30, 2012, Bugaboo, Sept 7, 2012 & Momma, Feb 27, 2013


Re: Breeding for Vanity or the "Good of the Glider [Re: VegemiteKid] #1149864
07/22/11 06:07 PM
07/22/11 06:07 PM
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 3,039
Bristol, Va
MissSarah Offline
Glider Addict
MissSarah  Offline
Glider Addict

Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 3,039
Bristol, Va
When I first read this, I took the "dog" approach as well. smile Its all a matter of what appeals to you personally. I have standard grays and one WF. Do I love any more than the other because of their outward appearance? No ma'am/sir.

Do I love one a bit more than the other because of their personalities...maaaaaaybe. wink

I can't lie though. I'd really like to have a Leu or a Mo to (non-breeding) pair with my little WF girl. But if a very sweet, laid back gray came along, I'd accept him or her into my tribe with open arms and an open heart.

I do think people have the right to choose what suits them as far as coloring goes. If you have the money for it, more power to you.

Last edited by MissSarah; 07/22/11 06:21 PM.

Proud Mom to Princess Pim The Insane. heart(and several other babies, skin and fur.)

Dogs have owners. Cats have staff. Gliders have indentured servants.

:rbridge: Dexter. You left blueberry stains on my wall and pawprints on my heart. I love you Decker-Boy. heart
Full Moon Gliders
(Under Construction)

Re: Breeding for Vanity or the "Good of the Glider"? [Re: VegemiteKid] #1149874
07/22/11 06:39 PM
07/22/11 06:39 PM
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 324
Portland, Oregon, USA
GlidersNW Offline
Glider Lover
GlidersNW  Offline
Glider Lover

Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 324
Portland, Oregon, USA
Breeding for a specific color doesn't determine how 'good' a breeder is. That's like saying a person with ten goldfish in their hundred gallon tank is better for having plain fish than someone that has a very colorful Saltwater tan with a Blue hippo tang, a False percula clownfish, two damsels, a flashing tilefish, and a goby or two. The person with the salt tank likes the vari9ety anc colors...it's all just preference. Don't get hung up on someone else's choice. It's their choice. If you want standard greys ro black beuties...rock them. I have the standard greys. I'm not particularly fond of the look of the BB's. Not saying I'd never own one. Depends on the personality. But I love the Leu's. It's just my preference. I have a True platinum...he was far more expensive than my Leu's are. My favorite color is Leucistic. They are just cute to me. I love Angelo do death. i just really like the Leu look. Like a fluffy black eyed marshmallow...and who doesn't likea good marshmallow???

i don't think it's anything to get upset about...it's just the choice they make...like the dog thing...or buying a car...I may like a VW...you may like a Honda...neither choice is worth freakin out about...

TO EACH HIS/HER OWN! =0)

Frankly it would be a lot more boring if everyone had the same thing...wouldn't it?

Last edited by GlidersNW; 07/22/11 06:42 PM.

Matt Compton
Gliders NW
email: glidersnw@gmail.com
cell: 503-737-9540
Re: Breeding for Vanity or the "Good of the Glider"? [Re: Sheila] #1149875
07/22/11 06:41 PM
07/22/11 06:41 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 13,797
Wisconsin
Feather Online sleep
Administrator
Feather  Online Sleep
Administrator

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 13,797
Wisconsin
Originally Posted By: Sheila
I would say it is important to look at the heart of the breeder. I was one of the first colored breeders in the USA. I am not going to boast about what I have done here as far as loving my animals and providing good homes for them, but I know that my heart is pure when it comes to gliders. When I recognize someone with a sincere heart, they will get my babies for free. I think colored breeders are categorized as being greedy. I do believe some breeders only want beautiful colored gliders for show on their websites. I believe that when they go to events with other glider owners they only bring with them their "prettiest" gliders to show off. What I intended to do from the beginning was to bring in from Canada, unusual colors and breed them safely to preserve the line. I cannot control where people's hearts are. People that I sold to in the beginning, I might refuse to let them have one of my babies now because I see how the sale of their joeys is their livelyhood. I see that they do not use good business ethics when it comes to selling their gliders, or how they trample over other breeders to get the sale. I don't believe in making glider sales a business. If it is a hobby, make sure it stays that way. When making money becomes more important than gliders, you should not be selling them. There are many who use the sale of their gliders to pay electric bills and house payments. I don't believe in that because if sales suffer, quess what, the glider suffers as well. I might sound bitter about this and I guess you can say that I am. I have been around a long time and have seen what has happened to this community and it saddens me greatly. cry


If the event is far from home I bring all 15 of the gliders at my house and I will say this the first glider that I bring out of the bonding pouch to show off is my beautiful Gizmo. Gizmo is the glider that started it all for me and until I went to my first SGGA I thought she was just your standard grey glider. Gizmo is a BB, but that doesn't matter to me, she is my first love and she is the first glider I show to people. Then I show off my first glider with lineage and her family. Then it is the new man in my life, Tucker, thank you Karin I love this little man. If I have Tank along he is next as he is my biggest glider. I love my gliders as individuals first. When I get home from work and put everyone into their bonding pouches for some bonding time I always take them out of their cages in the same order. Gizmo and Widget, then Jadzia, Worf and their joeys and then Tucker and soon to join him T'Pol when she is old enough to join him.

Like any breed of animal people tend to find something in the breed they want to breed for. Such as people breeding for black Arabians or people breeding for solid vs. broken pattern guinea pigs. It is a persons preference to breed Mosaics or Creminos.

I breed horses and the only color I will not breed to or for is chestnut or sorrel. For me my favorite color is bay. I do own black, palomino and bay right now. Of the mares we breed we are hoping for buckskin with two of the mares.

Color is just a persons preference for me it is:

A healthy foal or joey.

If I can get fussy after that I would like fillies or female joeys, then color-give me buckskin, bay or palomino.

A healthy foal or joey is always my first goal.


Kimberley
Feathers-Sweetie, Mister Peanut & Big Mack
Fur-Guinan, Mr. Spock, T'Mir, Cho, Toothless, Maverick & Maharet :bb: T'Pol, Elizabeth & Curzon :wfb: TY, TJ, Light Fury, Madison & T'Pring :rtmo:
Forever in my heart, Gizmo, Tucker, Khayman and the rest of my babies over the :rbridge:

Re: Breeding for Vanity or the "Good of the Glider [Re: VegemiteKid] #1149893
07/22/11 06:59 PM
07/22/11 06:59 PM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,414
Minneapolis, MN
wildlifeangel Offline
Glider Slave
wildlifeangel  Offline
Glider Slave

Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,414
Minneapolis, MN
[i][/i]Some phenomenal points have been brought up, I just wanted to add a COI point that I discovered on cats. My friend has a Maine Coon and her COI is 2.3 we can look at the acceptable cats and dogs and what they have learned from lineage and inbreeding to see what the consequences are as we'll as what COIs are acceptable in those species.

I breed colors... but I care for each one as much as the rest... colors are beautiful and I make sure the take care with their genetics.

We have learned a LOT from the breeding that has been done... and we have been able to identify problems that arise from inbreeding (sterility, wiggle, deformities) and we can breed to prevent these things from happening.

And as far as money... I am WAY under on my gliders... and while I hope that my gliders will pay for themselves...eventually. I don't count on the sales of my gliders to pay anything because we have enough other income that gliders are a bonus, not a necessary income. If I depended on the income, I would be afraid of not paying for food or vet bills....

Between food, supplies, and vet bills... taking excellent care of gliders is NOT cheap.


Nadine

Adam-Eve
Starsky-Bianca
Gabriel-Charity
Barrington-Bailey
Travis-Rose-Ruby
Justice-Mercy
Natalia-Carmella-Cayden
Minka-Marco
Reagan-Jocelynn
Donnovin-Selina
Kaluah-Keeko-Emily-Monty-Lexy-Kevin-Raven-Skeeter
:rtmo: :leu: :bb: :cream: :plat:

www.tspsugar.com
Re: Breeding for Vanity or the "Good of the Glider"? [Re: SugarGliderLove] #1149901
07/22/11 07:31 PM
07/22/11 07:31 PM
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,407
Fort Worth, Texas
Laci Offline
Glider Slave
Laci  Offline
Glider Slave

Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,407
Fort Worth, Texas
Originally Posted By: dpinkie03
you know 7 years ago or so people didnt care about linage.



I've had gliders for 9 years now, and 7 years ago, people were still concerned about linage... we still bought from pet stores occasionally, but still cared... I had to go through genetics testing when I found out my son was going to be born with Spina Bifida... So I always care about the genetics issues...

Matter of fact, I know a girl who married someone who turned out to be a cousin a few times renewed... they have three little girls... all three have tons of health issues... they're STILL trying for a boy...

Why would any person submit any baby through that type of torture is something I will never be able to understand... Therefore I could not, by good concience, allow any of my animals go through that...


Laci & Corbin & Isabela!
Kira OOP 12-19-06
Sir Diddymus OOP 01-07
Ambrosia OOP 11-06
Calliope ??
Tales 2002-2007
Guiness Feb. 2005-jan. 2007
Baby Millie 12/19/06- 1/10/07
I miss you guys terribly
Re: Breeding for Vanity or the "Good of the Glider"? [Re: Sheila] #1149903
07/22/11 07:39 PM
07/22/11 07:39 PM
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,407
Fort Worth, Texas
Laci Offline
Glider Slave
Laci  Offline
Glider Slave

Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,407
Fort Worth, Texas
Originally Posted By: Sheila
I would say it is important to look at the heart of the breeder. I am not going to boast about what I have done here as far as loving my animals and providing good homes for them, but I know that my heart is pure when it comes to gliders. When I recognize someone with a sincere heart, they will get my babies for free.



Sheila, you've always been amazing... I'm sorry to see people are abusing their babies... I understand people trying to make money to supply for their babies by selling the joeys... but to use it as like a main business is crazy... Any animal should first and foremost be a pet... Asking money for a baby really just insures the baby is going to a proper house that will care for it... What gets me is people asking blatantly for free hand outs... It's been happening a little at my house lately, and I'm tired... If you're going to be responsible for another life, you need to be able to afford a roof over their head, and food in their tummies regardless if they can make you money or not...

I remember when the asking price for greys was like 150, and wf 500!!!! Like I said in my first post... it's about preference... all babies do get loved, just some people prefer one thing over the other... I prefer vanilla ice cream over chocolate, so I buy the vanilla and let someone else purchase the chocolate!


Laci & Corbin & Isabela!
Kira OOP 12-19-06
Sir Diddymus OOP 01-07
Ambrosia OOP 11-06
Calliope ??
Tales 2002-2007
Guiness Feb. 2005-jan. 2007
Baby Millie 12/19/06- 1/10/07
I miss you guys terribly
Re: Breeding for Vanity or the "Good of the Glider"? [Re: ] #1149963
07/22/11 10:40 PM
07/22/11 10:40 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 20,093
North Central Ohio
GliderNursery Offline
Tech Admn
GliderNursery  Offline
Tech Admn

Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 20,093
North Central Ohio
Originally Posted By: JessieR
Shelly, I have looked at your site a lot. I am in love with your Maddie; she is absolutely gorgeous! I would love to see Simon as well. Maddie just couldn't be any prettier!


thanks Look at their new baby girl. heart



Shelly

Don't sacrifice quality information for convenient information.


Glider Nursery

Sugar Glider Foundation


Re: Breeding for Vanity or the "Good of the Glider"? [Re: VegemiteKid] #1149974
07/22/11 11:00 PM
07/22/11 11:00 PM
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 566
richmond,indiana
D
dizzyblue Offline
Glider Lover
dizzyblue  Offline
Glider Lover
D

Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 566
richmond,indiana
I haven't read everything yet.
But here's my cent and a half
I believe there's lots of good to come from breeding!
Great temperaments and good looks.
And you can also breed out sickness.
I think the whole lineage thing is wonderful!!!! I think its great how even newbies are asking about lineage.

dpinkie03--- frown
But power to you for sticking to your opinions. And I agree with you in that most of the normal breeders are just breeding for a hobby or fun. Not to really rule out diseases or anything that might help the glider population.

P.S. Getting my lue baby This coming Thursday Woot woot!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Re: Breeding for Vanity or the "Good of the Glider"? [Re: dizzyblue] #1150009
07/23/11 12:17 AM
07/23/11 12:17 AM
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 157
WA
Dee Offline
Joey Member
Dee  Offline
Joey Member

Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 157
WA
And I agree with you in that most of the normal breeders are just breeding for a hobby or fun. Not to really rule out diseases or anything that might help the glider population.

P.S. Getting my lue baby This coming Thursday Woot woot!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!![/quote]

I have to disagree with this statement. I believe the majority of the people that are informed and make the decision to breed do very much care about the gliders health and such. That is why people care about COI's linage, sterile lines etc. For most it isn't a knee jerk reaction to decide to breed.

Congrats on your Lue!


Dee

Wife for 17 years
Mom to two awesome boys two pitbull mixes Allie & Bailey
Re: Breeding for Vanity or the "Good of the Glider"? [Re: VegemiteKid] #1150061
07/23/11 02:40 AM
07/23/11 02:40 AM

D
DB13
Unregistered
DB13
Unregistered
D



This might not be my place since I dont have a sugar glider yet but here I go.

I think the lineage and COIs are indeed important. I plan to do the breeding not for the money but for the breeding itself. It will be a hobby but I am going to be smart about it by caring for the health more than the fun.

Its like off roading in a atv. Its fun to drive through the desert but I will be cautions when I ride or I just might crash into a cacti or hit a hole that can make me fly.

Re: Breeding for Vanity or the "Good of the Glider"? [Re: VegemiteKid] #1150128
07/23/11 06:31 AM
07/23/11 06:31 AM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 7,748
New Jersey
JillMarie Offline
Serious Glideritis
JillMarie  Offline
Serious Glideritis

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 7,748
New Jersey
I really do try to stay out of breeding discussions, but felt I needed to comment on this one.

There is always a risk to line breeding. THIS IS FACT. Keeping track of who is related to who is extremely important to avoid any possibility of defects. Breeding without lineage is risky, and may not show up in the first set of babies, but may show up in THEIR babies, or their babies' babies. Especially if their babies are allowed to breed to other babies who dont have lineage and you have no idea who they are related to. This is where the biggest risk comes in.

I love all gliders. Dont matter the color. I do think it is more important to breed for health and intelligence.

When I first got gliders I had every intention of breeding. And 3 years later I even have a person who is willing to fund a breeding "business" if I so desired, so money is no issue. But I have to be honest. Once I had gliders for a while, and saw the depth of their personalities, I just cant do it. I cannot subject another glider to living in a cage.

Many on here know of the relationship I have with my Arwen. she is extraordinary as far as I am concerned. I dread the day that God calls her home, and greatly desire to find her a "worthy mate" just so I would have her offspring to console me when she is gone. I also feel that letting her personality and intelligence die with her is a great diservice to the glider population.

But would adding her "genes" into the glider population be a good or bad move since the only lineage I have on her is I know her mommy and daddy (Gizmo and Kizmit) and thats it.

As for breeding for color, is it vanity or not? Yes it is. Prefence in this case is similar to vanity in my opinion. I want a purple corvette. Why? I like purple. I like corvettes. That is a prefernce. Then when I say, a purple corevette would look cool, does that become vanity? In a way it does. Even if it is vane for YOUSELF ( kind of like wearing fancy undergarments that no one sees)

What color glider would I buy for Arwen? So far I have only seen one I wanted for her, and the desire was three-fold: First was the breeder he was born to, second was his eyes and the reaction in my heart when I looked at him, third and least important was his coloring. he was strikingly beaurtiful. I will say though, that if I see a picture of an available joey, no matter his color, if I feel that tug on my heart then I would consider getting him. Why didnt I buy that one? Because of my desire to NOT condemning them to live in a cage was greater than my desire to own and breed him. (thats love for you)

Breeding good for us or good for the glider? Is a question each of us need to answer for ourselves based on our motivation.


:grey: Bosom Buddy Creations:grey:
^website link wink

Remember that God Loves You!
Re: Breeding for Vanity or the "Good of the Glider"? [Re: VegemiteKid] #1150134
07/23/11 06:59 AM
07/23/11 06:59 AM

C
Celticfaery
Unregistered
Celticfaery
Unregistered
C



I feel totally ignorant asking this question and if it's in the wrong place, please feel free to place it properly, moderators.

Where can I find out about the different colours of gliders? And what does COI mean? And why does everyone else know and I don't?

I got my gliders from a friend. Two are mother and daughter and are standard grays...or is it greys? The third is a blond faced white. I have no idea what lions, mosaics, leus, etc. are.

I will tell you though that as a relatively new owner, I think that all sugar gliders are beautiful, no matter what colour they are. My husband and son think I have lost my mind but I can't help it. I am a fully fledged member of the glider cult and proud of it!

Re: Breeding for Vanity or the "Good of the Glider"? [Re: VegemiteKid] #1150140
07/23/11 07:10 AM
07/23/11 07:10 AM
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 223
Joppa, Maryland
holelottaRosie Offline
Glider Explorer
holelottaRosie  Offline
Glider Explorer

Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 223
Joppa, Maryland
Jill I sure do love to read your posts...I myself have often thought about your comment "condemning them to live in a cage". And I have often wondered if it really does bother them or not...is most of the population in the US domesticated enough that it isn't really a problem anymore? the you don't miss what you've never had type of thing...Does having the "Good Life" we give them make up for what we have taken from them? When I say the good life I am of course referring to the love, protection,good diet and of course tons of toys to stimulate their minds. I guess my hope is that all those things offset what we have taken from them.

I'm sorry I know this isn't really the topic at hand....I just hand to comment on your post...I sure would love to meet you and Arwen one day.


Gary
Servant to
Mia & Rosie :grey: Delilah :wfb:
Piper,Phoebe and Paige :grey: "The Charmed Ones"
My Connie babies Liam & Lilith :bb: And Sparrow :rtmo:
3 Kitties Jazzy,Angus and Clyde..We miss you Ashley
1 Adorable Basset Hound Puppy "Zelda The Great"
1 Adorable Wife Celia "The Boss"
Re: Breeding for Vanity or the "Good of the Glider"? [Re: Jos] #1150158
07/23/11 08:48 AM
07/23/11 08:48 AM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 246
Upstate NY (Adirondack region)
ShazMom Offline
Glider Explorer
ShazMom  Offline
Glider Explorer

Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 246
Upstate NY (Adirondack region)
I agree with Jos on this one! People have bred animals in general for centuries to get a better species, certain colors, certain temperments, and so on. For example, back in the times of gladiatore, sharpeis were bred to fight lions! YEP! That is why they are very "wrinkly" lil guys with very thick skin! They could be bit by a lion and survive the attack.

Certain animals were and are also bred in captivity to BETTER the species and bring up its numbers. People that breed "for the good of the glider" have good genes in mind and most wind up with "surprise" colors due to this. Most gliders in the wild are grey. They are grey, so that they survive. It helps them to "blend" in with the environment and hide from predators. Almost all species have some variation in color and most have albinos. Albinos are just lacking pigment (melatonin). If anyone here took basic biology and did punent squares, you know that in every species there are dominant and recessive genes. Depending on the mating pair, suggie, human, K-9, so on, they all will have dominant and recessive traits in their DNA. This is what gives us the variety!
My gosh--look at all the new dog breeds we have--labradoodles, puggles, and so forth--is this "for the good" of the K-9 species? Probably not, but people still do it.

We are all entitled to our opions and so forth and this forum is great at letting us do so, but please realize that breeding a species as new as suggies are to our counrty takes time, patience, know how, and money.
BREED WITH CARE! I know that most of our breeder on here do so and I applaude them all! BREED-FOR THE GOOD AND BENEFIT OF THIS AWESOME SPECIES!

Thanks for letting me rant!
Great topic Veggimite!


Colleen (ShazMom)
Buddy :grey:
Re: Breeding for Vanity or the "Good of the Glider"? [Re: VegemiteKid] #1150183
07/23/11 10:19 AM
07/23/11 10:19 AM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 192
Indiana
F
fuzzbuttsmommy Offline
Glider Explorer
fuzzbuttsmommy  Offline
Glider Explorer
F

Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 192
Indiana
I started off with all rescued Standard Greys. I love every one of them with all my heart. I Always wanted a Leu and had to save for years to get one. I now am the proud mommy of a little female Leu and a Male Mosaic. Which I plan to Breed one day.I am not doing this to get rich but to be able to give other people the joy of owning a colored Glider at an affordable price.


:leu: Echo :wfb: Radar
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