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Re: Hairless Sugar Glider [Re: ] #1188225
11/04/11 01:50 PM
11/04/11 01:50 PM
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 913
Casper, Wyoming
sphynxie Offline
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Casper, Wyoming
Hairless cats started out the same way, a random fluke in a barn cat in Canada.


Melonie

:grey: :wfb: :leu: :rtmo: :plat: :cream:

Re: Hairless Sugar Glider [Re: ] #1188240
11/04/11 03:29 PM
11/04/11 03:29 PM

S
SuggieAddict
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She has a vet appointment friday, Hopefully we will know more then!

Her whiskers are very curly, I will try to get more pictures of her stomache/whiskers.

Re: Hairless Sugar Glider [Re: ] #1188246
11/04/11 03:49 PM
11/04/11 03:49 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 16,799
St. Johns, Florida
Srlb Offline
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St. Johns, Florida
So glad to know you are taking her to the vet. I am assuming you are meaning next Friday (since today is Friday). Do you mind me asking which vet you are going to go see?

Do you mind if I share that picture with some of the vets I work with?

Do you have lineage on mom and dad?


Peggy
Critter Love
Critter Love� Diet Center

If you want to know what a person is like, watch how he treats others.

You'll never know what the outcome is if you don't step up and try.

Re: Hairless Sugar Glider [Re: ] #1188256
11/04/11 04:38 PM
11/04/11 04:38 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 4,645
Ohio
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Curly whiskers could be a sign of her being a truelly hairless glider and not just her having some type of illness.

In mice there is a variation called Fuzzy Hairless. They're basically hairless, but will sometimes have small amounts of hair on their face/head. They also have curly whiskers, like your joey.

The hairlessness of the mouse if caused by the skin being slightly thicker and the fur being curly and, thus, somewhat thin and fragile. The hair isn't strong enough to push through the surface of the skin, thus resulting in an animal that appears hairless.

I have no idea if that's what's going on with your little girl, but thought it was worth mentioning since you said she has curly whiskers, which would indicate that her fur, too, is probably curly.


~Nicole~

Proudly enslaved by lots of silly suggies, 3 crazy kitties, a huffy hedgie, and a pretty puppy! grin
Re: Hairless Sugar Glider [Re: Guerita135] #1188272
11/04/11 06:47 PM
11/04/11 06:47 PM
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 913
Casper, Wyoming
sphynxie Offline
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Casper, Wyoming
Originally Posted By: Guerita135
Curly whiskers could be a sign of her being a truelly hairless glider and not just her having some type of illness.

In mice there is a variation called Fuzzy Hairless. They're basically hairless, but will sometimes have small amounts of hair on their face/head. They also have curly whiskers, like your joey.

The hairlessness of the mouse if caused by the skin being slightly thicker and the fur being curly and, thus, somewhat thin and fragile. The hair isn't strong enough to push through the surface of the skin, thus resulting in an animal that appears hairless.

I have no idea if that's what's going on with your little girl, but thought it was worth mentioning since you said she has curly whiskers, which would indicate that her fur, too, is probably curly.


That is what I would lean towards as well.


Melonie

:grey: :wfb: :leu: :rtmo: :plat: :cream:

Re: Hairless Sugar Glider [Re: ] #1188276
11/04/11 06:58 PM
11/04/11 06:58 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,570
Kansas City, MO
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Kansas City, MO
Is it possible to see her from more angles? I'm curious about the top of her head and spine.. I've heard of a joey oop'ing with fur then the parents over grooming it all off but this ... It could be any number of things going on but based on how small she is I don't think its just a genetic thing that happened like the random occurrence of Albino. I would weigh her on a daily basis (same time everyday) make sure she is growing. If she's growing keep the family warm and happy and go ahead and follow through with your vet visit. And since you were planning to anyway go ahead with your neuter just in case this wasn't just a random fluke.


~Lauren

Lauren's Animal Kingdom
*Website is down temporarily should be back up by November!*
Re: Hairless Sugar Glider [Re: ] #1188292
11/04/11 08:08 PM
11/04/11 08:08 PM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,516
North Dakota
kjgoulet Offline
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Posts: 1,516
North Dakota
This is truely interesting and I'm looking forward to coming back and reading more about this little wonder. I hope it's nothing serious and not going to lie, I'm not not NOT a person that likes hairless things tounge but this little girl is honestly to DIE for! Very cute even being nakid wink


Kristi

Mommy to..
Daughter Abby
:grey: :wfb: :rtmo:
And my many fuzzy children <3
www.tenderlovingsuggies.webs.com
Re: Hairless Sugar Glider [Re: ] #1188340
11/04/11 10:35 PM
11/04/11 10:35 PM
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 12,099
Vulcan, MO
Meg_n_Von Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
Meg_n_Von  Offline
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Posts: 12,099
Vulcan, MO
My mind is completely frazzled on this! I've never seen any thing like this before. Then again, neither has anyone else.

I'm extremely curious as to what the vet has to say about this little one...


Megan & LaVaughn

Sugar Exotics

:bb: Kira :grey: Sadie - Neal :wfb: Pip - Violet :rtmo: Logan - Charli - Tyler - Seamus :plat: Chloe - Cas :leu: Boone

RIP David
Your life was short lived, but your memory will last forever.
Re: Hairless Sugar Glider [Re: ] #1188346
11/04/11 10:40 PM
11/04/11 10:40 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,889
Springfield/Eugene, OR
kitsune Offline
Glider Slave
kitsune  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,889
Springfield/Eugene, OR
Her whiskers are very short. It looks like they just stated growing, or were recently all pulled out. If you can get a weight on her it would help a lot. It honestly looks like overgrooming to me. I've seen a 'hairless' glider before, and it turned out he was just overgrooming himself to the extreme. If this little one was out of pouch way too early, the mother might have felt she needed to clean her more often to keep her skin humid enough. Her new hair follicles are delicate and wouldn't hold up too well to that much cleaning. The spot on the forehead would be where daddy is marking her, so they wouldn't clean as well there maybe? I would guess she looks about 10-12 days old, unless her eyes have been open longer. The benchmark of the eyes opening is a good way to determine age.

I had a pair of rats that I bred for a few years. The female was completely hairless, with curly whiskers. The male was a super-short rex, basically the product of a hairless breeding to a non-hairless rat. Their babies were always covered with peach fuzz, never a completely hairless one. All with curly whiskers. I would think the hairless gene is connected to the rex gene, and we'd see curly hair before we saw a hairless. I believe it's similar in cats? Although I have no firsthand experience with hairless or rex cats.


Beth

mlove Glide free :rbridge: :bb: Dimitri and Tegan :wfb: :rbridge: and right-side up! mlove
Re: Hairless Sugar Glider [Re: ] #1188347
11/04/11 10:46 PM
11/04/11 10:46 PM
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 146
Newport News, Virginia
D
DianeR Offline
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DianeR  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 146
Newport News, Virginia
This looks like a typical hairless mutation. It is not a healthy mutation, and is probably associated with the gene that controls keratinization of the skin, nails and hair. These usually do not live very long, as they have a whole host of organ and tissue developmental problems. If this is the mutation I think it is the glider will have very narrow and small nails, much smaller than normal.

This is the Fox-gene, same as for hairless rats. Here is a link with more information.

http://ghr.nlm.nih.gov/geneFamily/fox

A much milder form of mutation of this gene family results in the satin gene mutation.

Last edited by DianeR; 11/04/11 10:48 PM.
Re: Hairless Sugar Glider [Re: ] #1188358
11/04/11 10:53 PM
11/04/11 10:53 PM
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 146
Newport News, Virginia
D
DianeR Offline
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DianeR  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 146
Newport News, Virginia
More info on this gene and some of the known mutations:

http://www.informatics.jax.org/javawi2/s...mp;imageType=11

A similar mutation:
http://www.informatics.jax.org/javawi2/servlet/WIFetch?page=imageDetail&key=13579


It is most likely recessive.

Re: Hairless Sugar Glider [Re: ] #1188359
11/04/11 11:00 PM
11/04/11 11:00 PM
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 146
Newport News, Virginia
D
DianeR Offline
Joey Member
DianeR  Offline
Joey Member
D

Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 146
Newport News, Virginia
My personal opinion here is that these should not be bred. The male should be neutered and the female retired.

Even if this joey lives these have so many problems, including reduced fertility and they should never be knowingly mixed with the other breeding lines that have been established.

Their lineage should be posted because with this being a recessive it could crop up at any time in any of the other gliders coming from either of the two parents' lines. And we need to be aware of it.

Re: Hairless Sugar Glider [Re: DianeR] #1188375
11/04/11 11:17 PM
11/04/11 11:17 PM
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 146
Newport News, Virginia
D
DianeR Offline
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DianeR  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 146
Newport News, Virginia
And one more link for anyone with a genetics background:

http://www.informatics.jax.org/searches/accession_report.cgi?id=MGI:102949

Re: Hairless Sugar Glider [Re: ] #1188393
11/05/11 12:51 AM
11/05/11 12:51 AM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,527
Lake Havasu City, AZ
Marsupial_Mayhem Offline
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Posts: 1,527
Lake Havasu City, AZ
Even if the pair is not related, there could be some "quirk" with the pairing. I really wish we could see the lineage on this joey.


Danielle G.
USDA Breeder

www.Mylittlesugarglider.com

Slave to Sugar Gliders since 1997



:leu: = Abercrombie

:wfb: = Verbena :rtmo: = Saukura :cream: = Merry Christmas :plat: = Willie Wonka :plat: = Magdalena

Re: Hairless Sugar Glider [Re: ] #1188403
11/05/11 08:44 AM
11/05/11 08:44 AM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 4,182
Maine
IslandGliders Offline
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IslandGliders  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 4,182
Maine
With you mentioning the very curly whiskers, I am definitely leaning toward this being a genetic anomaly... the first (known/documented) hairless glider. In rats, curly whiskers is a sure sign you are working with the rex gene. However in rats, IIRC, the rex gene isn't the same as the hairless gene (though true hairless rats also have the curly whiskers). Rex is a dominant gene and one copy yields a curly coat, while two copies yield a patchy-and-sparse-but-still-there coat (called a double rex). True hairless rats are visibly and genetically different than double rexes.

I agree with Diane that hairlessness is not a trait that should be bred for. It carries other abnormalities that are not visible to the naked eye.

In hairless rats, shorter lifespans and inability to produce milk has been noted.

Please keep us posted! I am pulling for this little one! I hope she lives a long and happy life with you.

Re: Hairless Sugar Glider [Re: ] #1188537
11/05/11 09:00 PM
11/05/11 09:00 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 16,799
St. Johns, Florida
Srlb Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
Srlb  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 16,799
St. Johns, Florida
Sherri brought up a good point. This baby has no patagium and the hands look *off* so she started looking up babies and I got to looking at some...

This looks just like a hairless mongolian gerbil or some other type of hairless rodent.... and with this person not coming back, not sharing information, Im just wondering.... another *gotcha* by chance?

hairless mouse


Mongolian Gerbil


Peggy
Critter Love
Critter Love� Diet Center

If you want to know what a person is like, watch how he treats others.

You'll never know what the outcome is if you don't step up and try.

Re: Hairless Sugar Glider [Re: ] #1188546
11/05/11 09:49 PM
11/05/11 09:49 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 16,799
St. Johns, Florida
Srlb Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
Srlb  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 16,799
St. Johns, Florida
Ok, seems there was another case similar to this one back in 2008 posted on Glider Gossip. http://www.sugarglider.com/glidergossip/topic.asp?ARCHIVE=true&TOPIC_ID=16059&whichpage=1

OP posted and just like this one, never came back.... could it be something being passed along through breeding??


Peggy
Critter Love
Critter Love� Diet Center

If you want to know what a person is like, watch how he treats others.

You'll never know what the outcome is if you don't step up and try.

Re: Hairless Sugar Glider [Re: ] #1188547
11/05/11 09:55 PM
11/05/11 09:55 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,983
Denton, TX
ValkyrieMome Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
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Posts: 10,983
Denton, TX
Normally I'd completely agree, Peggy - but this little one does have the fused toes of the back grooming claw?

Is a mystery - but I wouldn't be surprised by a "gotcha" of some sort. There's a world of speculation, and not many answers forth-coming!


Alden
"Animals can communicate quite well. And they do. And generally speaking, they are ignored." Alice Walker


Mom to Valhalla; 6 cats; 1 macaw; 2 hedgehogs;
and very many great gliders!

(plus the 2 skin kids)
valkyriegliders.com

Kyrie, nothing will ever fill the hole you left in my heart.
Re: Hairless Sugar Glider [Re: ] #1188550
11/05/11 09:59 PM
11/05/11 09:59 PM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,871
kentucky
ssdreamsicles Offline
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Posts: 1,871
kentucky
It reminds me so much of hairless rats. They can be bald as a babies bottom or have hair in patches like that pic above. I deff think it is not norm. The link you posted peggy i wonder if it is not a skin fungus of sorts. From the hair it does have it looks to be on a poor diet.

I really wish we could find out if it is a condition like in humans where the body rejects hair. The person affected can go thru periods of time where they have some hair and then none at all. I wish i could think of the condition.

Re: Hairless Sugar Glider [Re: ssdreamsicles] #1188557
11/05/11 10:16 PM
11/05/11 10:16 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,889
Springfield/Eugene, OR
kitsune Offline
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kitsune  Offline
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Posts: 1,889
Springfield/Eugene, OR
Originally Posted By: ssdreamsicles
I deff think it is not norm. The link you posted peggy i wonder if it is not a skin fungus of sorts. From the hair it does have it looks to be on a poor diet.


It could be some sort of fungus, mange, really bad ringworm...many skin fungi will make hair fall out. The joey may be more seceptible to it because of its age, which is why the parents aren't showing symptoms.


Beth

mlove Glide free :rbridge: :bb: Dimitri and Tegan :wfb: :rbridge: and right-side up! mlove
Re: Hairless Sugar Glider [Re: ] #1188561
11/05/11 10:41 PM
11/05/11 10:41 PM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,832
Big Sandy TN
Sherri Offline
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Sherri  Offline
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Posts: 3,832
Big Sandy TN
What has me thrown off is the patagium. This is one of my joeys before his eyes opened and there is clearly a difference between my patagium on my joey and the lack of patagium on the hairless joey.



Personally I am not sure what to think and unless the op comes back to give us more information I'm not sure if I'm going to believe this is a joey at all.


sherri

Forever home to a wide variety of animals, domestic, farm and exotic.
My passion is my little suggie sweethearts! 731-441-9814


http://www.newbysglidernook.com/index.html
Re: Hairless Sugar Glider [Re: ] #1188562
11/05/11 10:43 PM
11/05/11 10:43 PM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,871
kentucky
ssdreamsicles Offline
Glider Slave
ssdreamsicles  Offline
Glider Slave

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,871
kentucky
But with ringworm the owner would show signs. The other stuff no. I think the link above with the older glider its more likly. Im not sure what test can be done on such a little baby. Skin scraping is not a good idea in gliders which is how some stuff is found. A culture or tape test might work.

Re: Hairless Sugar Glider [Re: ] #1188564
11/05/11 10:54 PM
11/05/11 10:54 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 16,799
St. Johns, Florida
Srlb Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
Srlb  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 16,799
St. Johns, Florida
Here is a picture of the skinless, said to be 4 week OOP joey and a picture of one of Sherris joeys at just a day or two oop...



Peggy
Critter Love
Critter Love� Diet Center

If you want to know what a person is like, watch how he treats others.

You'll never know what the outcome is if you don't step up and try.

Re: Hairless Sugar Glider [Re: ] #1188584
11/05/11 11:47 PM
11/05/11 11:47 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,748
80 acres of paradise in KS
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
Dancing  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,748
80 acres of paradise in KS
Typical same pattern. Someone hasn't replied in a "timely" manner and automatically it is jumped to that this is a scam.

Maybe it is or maybe this person has been busy????

Sherri, I can clearly see a patagium on this "naked" joey. I see the fused toes.

Perhaps with all the doubts being posted, the OP will choose not to come back to this thread.


620-704-9109
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.
Re: Hairless Sugar Glider [Re: ] #1188585
11/05/11 11:47 PM
11/05/11 11:47 PM
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 169
UT, USA
cke Offline
Glider Explorer
cke  Offline
Glider Explorer

Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 169
UT, USA
I guess I'm naive, do you get a lot of gotcha's on the forum and what would be the point? I don't understand people if this is indeed true. There are so many other things to do, besides doing stuff like this.

By the way if it is a joey, it's still cute but I'd be scared of hurting her.


CK
:grey: Scrat, & 2 white face females Pip and Peaches




Forever imprinted on my heart Scout! :grey: :rbridge:
Re: Hairless Sugar Glider [Re: ] #1188594
11/06/11 12:20 AM
11/06/11 12:20 AM

M
Megs
Unregistered
Megs
Unregistered
M



If people yell scam because this person doesn't post in what you think is a timely manner, they could just opt against coming back at all. It's not like she's not gotten the advice/ideas she was seeking.

I see the fused toes and I DEFINITELY see the patagium. And she said in the first post she was planning on having Daddy neutered before this came about, so I don't think insisting on neutering is all too necessary. She planned on doing so as it was.

Re: Hairless Sugar Glider [Re: ] #1188595
11/06/11 12:21 AM
11/06/11 12:21 AM
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 146
Newport News, Virginia
D
DianeR Offline
Joey Member
DianeR  Offline
Joey Member
D

Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 146
Newport News, Virginia
She's already said that this joey has a vet appointment coming up on Friday. I'd give her some time to digest everything and not be so ready to jump to conclusions. If this is truly a detrimental mutation we should all be supportive of the breeder who is going through this. Put yourself in her shoes and think about what you would be going through if you found your prized gliders producing this kind of abnormal joey, and try to be a little more kind.

I know the last thing I would want to do is have to come back and defend that this is actually a joey, and that I'm not trying to scam anyone with a gotcha. Holy cow, I can't even believe I just read that.

Re: Hairless Sugar Glider [Re: ] #1188596
11/06/11 12:22 AM
11/06/11 12:22 AM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,871
kentucky
ssdreamsicles Offline
Glider Slave
ssdreamsicles  Offline
Glider Slave

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,871
kentucky
I have a pm going with her and she just does not seem to be on as much as we are. Give her time to post im sure she will. She has not been on to read my pm back today.

Re: Hairless Sugar Glider [Re: ] #1188597
11/06/11 12:29 AM
11/06/11 12:29 AM
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 169
UT, USA
cke Offline
Glider Explorer
cke  Offline
Glider Explorer

Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 169
UT, USA
If that was me going through what she is going through and came back and read all these posts, I would never come back again. I would be really hurt.

Is it possible for people to delte posts? I'll delete mine but I was just confused. Have you guys eperienced people pulling a gotcha? and why?


CK
:grey: Scrat, & 2 white face females Pip and Peaches




Forever imprinted on my heart Scout! :grey: :rbridge:
Re: Hairless Sugar Glider [Re: ] #1188598
11/06/11 12:40 AM
11/06/11 12:40 AM
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 41
missouri
fuzzypeach Offline
Out of Pouch
fuzzypeach  Offline
Out of Pouch

Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 41
missouri
Alopecia areata -- patches of hair loss

Alopecia universalis -- total loss of all body hair

These are conditions in humans caused by the immune system attacking the hair follicles.

I have no idea if this has anything to do with this little one, I was just sharing for ssdreamsicles. My daughter has alopecia areata, so the condition you were thinking of came right to mind.

This little baby is in my prayers.

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