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Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? [Re: ] #500736
03/11/08 01:14 AM
03/11/08 01:14 AM

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suggiemom
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"And suggiemom please get your facts straight as well. Your information is wrong. "

Oh, I've got my facts just dandy Ron. I didn't say YOU did the neuters did I? I said, according to the last thread or maybe several threads ago, it was brought up that someone at the Ohio markets, was reprimanded for self neutering. If that is in error, then that is the fault of the original poster.

You're jumpier than a cat on a hot tin roof; especially when this thread isn't even about YOU. Reminds me of an old Carly Simon song...."I bet you think this thread is about you, don't you , don't youuuuuuu"....LOL

You can stand up for Kathy or mill breeding to justify it in your mind any way you need to, but I've got a house full of gliders that came from her in some form or other. Don't tell me she's such a great and wonderful breeder. The proof is sitting in my living room right now and you'll never get me to think otherwise.

And for me, it's not about whether they sell at flea markets or trade shows or how many gliders they have. It's the QUALITY of life they're given and well, in my personal experience that leaves a lot to be desired in some cases and if that doesn't include YOU then I guess you have no need to get so defensive do you?

Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? [Re: ] #500738
03/11/08 01:16 AM
03/11/08 01:16 AM

S
suggiemom
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suggiemom
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SuggieMomma77 that sure sounds like Pocket Pets....same schpeal.

Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? [Re: ] #500745
03/11/08 01:23 AM
03/11/08 01:23 AM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,748
80 acres of paradise in KS
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Wow....time and time again in this thread, it has been said this was a generic list of what we (in general) consider traits of a mill breeder. Seems to me that unless you have something to feel guilty about, this thread wouldn't offend you or cause you to become defensive.

There are quite a lot of new owners who are not familiar with the term mill breeder and exactly what that is and why they should be avoided. This thread was meant as an explaination. (atleast that was the take I got on it)


620-704-9109
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.
Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? [Re: Dancing] #500770
03/11/08 04:54 AM
03/11/08 04:54 AM

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TnR
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These are about dog breeders but I think a lot of it applies to sugar glider breeders as well.

http://home.comcast.net/~NoPuppyMillsVA/Responsible_breeding/responsible_breeding.html

http://www.iupui.edu/~ihls400/responsible_breeder.html

Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? [Re: ] #500780
03/11/08 05:55 AM
03/11/08 05:55 AM
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I'm curious about something Mr. Ron, how is it you only show up here on G.C when a thread about mill breeding is up?



Keeper of Handprints on my Heart, You left your Footprints on my soul.
My precious loves that left to quickly, Peanut, Katie
Isabella, Kiwi, Bonnie and Monroe.

Spread your wings and glide free of pain,
Until the day I see you again.

God speed my precious angels. I love you. Mama.
Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? [Re: SugarBlossoms] #501317
03/11/08 05:24 PM
03/11/08 05:24 PM

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Brittney
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I agree with all that's said concerning what makes a breeder a mill - and I'm SO glad to be part of such a CARING community! You guys really are amazing!!

To be honest I have only ever dealt with ONE breeder personally. I have two full grown girl suggies - one from Sil/mysugarhigh.com and the other was a rescue who I think came from CCC. If for any reason Sil was SO DEFFENSIVE about any of my concerns, I'd at that point be even less reassured. This juvinille attitude of "Well!? Well?!? Yeah, but... yeah but... well, you...." etc screams bad practices, no matter WHAT the business. In my experience in working with a GOOD hobby breeder, I got the impression that a good breeder would go to any lengths to make you feel AT EASE. Not argue with you, but talk it out with you. The only things we EVER seem to hear from these large scale breeders (and their employees) is excuses and rebuttles. If I'd called my breeder up with horrific accusations, I'm sure she would not hesitate to go to great lengths to reassure me and prove my alligation wrong. I'm sorry but I just don't find any confidence in such a childishly defensive response to SO MANY bad experiences. If I were a breeder and found I had THAT bad of a rep, I'd be completely mortified and would quit the business, and that's no lie! I think any good, respectable, responsible hobby breeder would feel the same.

Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? [Re: ] #501351
03/11/08 06:11 PM
03/11/08 06:11 PM

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SuggieLovers
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Originally Posted By: suggiemom
Wasn't it a proven fact very recently that someone was indeed doing the pocket knife neuters at one of the Ohio markets and was that vendor not fined for it? At least that is what I gathered from the previous thread on this subject.

Oh Sherry....which vet was it that recommended the joeys be pulled from their mom? I've spent a lot of time in the area and would be curious to know which one. It's ok that he 'recently passed', I'm just curious which one it was.


Suggiemom, I am not sure why you referred to me as Sherry because my name is Janine. And the vet's name that I was referring to is Dr. Butler. I don't think I made the first post clear or else some of you have read it wrong. Dr. Butler told her that the reason her momma glider was dehydrated is because the babies were to old to still be with her and they were sucking her dry.

He told her to take the babies away of course right then but if she let that glider breed again to make sure she took her babies away sooner and that way she would not get dehydrated again. She doesn't have to worry about that though because she had the daddy neutered. That is why I ask, because I was trying to find out if it was a proven fact that they had to stay with their momma and daddy until they were at least 8 weeks oop.

Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? [Re: ] #501360
03/11/08 06:29 PM
03/11/08 06:29 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,748
80 acres of paradise in KS
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Janine...I've left joeys with the parents permenantly. I have several family colonies and never once have I had a mom dehydrate from a nursing joey, nor even nursing twins or even my one set of nursing triplets.

Gliders are capable of producing different types of milk for different age joeys as well so they can accomodate out of pouch nursing joeys AND newly in pouch joeys at the same time.

Gliders are not stupid animals and they are generally great parents to their offspring. Like other animals, if they are not producing milk, they will stop nursing. When this happens when the joeys are still young, under 8 weeks, it is generally because the diet the mother is on is NOT providing the nutrients and moisture (such as pellet diets) that the mother requires to produce the needed milk for the joeys.

So no, joeys should NOT be pulled early because of the risk of dehydration to the mother providing that the mother is on a proper diet and getting the needed nutrition and moisture.



620-704-9109
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.
Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? [Re: Dancing] #501656
03/11/08 10:07 PM
03/11/08 10:07 PM

S
suggiemom
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suggiemom
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S



Oh Janine, I guess I had you confused for someone else huh? My bad. Sorry.

Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? [Re: ] #501668
03/11/08 10:19 PM
03/11/08 10:19 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,983
Denton, TX
ValkyrieMome Offline OP
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Dancing - that was my thought.

I have not had the experience with breeding that you have had, but I have had kids! I know that when nursing, I would sit down with a LARGE glass of water! It makes sense that then that I would want to up the intake for my little glider mom. She's eating for two, and, unlike humans who have just given birth, she's not worried about getting back her girlish figure, or about some sort of pre-set schedule the joey should be on!

I've increased her food, I've increased her mealies, and I've noticed that, since Abigail came OOP, that cage has emptied one of their two water bottles twice! Stella Luna is being abundantly fed, so that she can abundantly feed her little Abigail.


Alden
"Animals can communicate quite well. And they do. And generally speaking, they are ignored." Alice Walker


Mom to Valhalla; 6 cats; 1 macaw; 2 hedgehogs;
and very many great gliders!

(plus the 2 skin kids)
valkyriegliders.com

Kyrie, nothing will ever fill the hole you left in my heart.
Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? [Re: ValkyrieMome] #502345
03/12/08 02:32 PM
03/12/08 02:32 PM

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McGhee28
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It makes me really sad to think about the way we bought our first baby.

I LOVE animals but we live in an apartment and the pet deposit is $700 (with only $200 of it being refundable). The only way to get out of it is if they are a caged animal. We were in Grand Prairie, TX for the weekend and stopped at Traders Village before we came home. We were introduced to the glider world by Mike. He had four tiny babies to sell that day. He showed us his gliders and even showed me how they could drink out a juice box and clean up ANY mess they made. They let me hold them and love and cuddle them. He told me how EASY they were to care for, apple slices and a few Mazuri pellets in the evening. They didn’t ever smell or make messes either! AMAZING! He even through in a little cage that would “last her forever” and 6 months worth of Mazuri pellets in for FREE! SOLLLLLLLLLLLD!

When we got home, things were awful. Sugar bit, she crabbed, she bounced from one side of her cage to the other. I tried MANY times to get a hold of Mike: email and phone both. He wouldn’t answer. It was about 6 weeks before we realized what was happening to our baby.

MILL BREEDERS NEED TO BE STOPPED!


Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? [Re: ] #502501
03/12/08 04:12 PM
03/12/08 04:12 PM

S
suggiemom
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suggiemom
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S



Oh, I'm sorry you had to learn about them that way. It's just disgusting that they tell people these things. People just get suckered in by the cuteness and they make it seem so great and the gliders so friendly, but they don't sell you the ones in their pocket, they reach into a cage of terrified joeys and send it home with you!

Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? [Re: SugarBlossoms] #504988
03/15/08 07:35 PM
03/15/08 07:35 PM
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 515
Tennessee
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fliptout Offline
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Posts: 515
Tennessee
The girl that did the neutering no longer works for Kathy, she fired her last Wednesday

Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? [Re: fliptout] #505041
03/15/08 08:59 PM
03/15/08 08:59 PM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 879
Northeast TN bordering VA/NC
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Says who?


Jenny tounge

Wife to Josh, Mom to Taylor heart

:glider: Coo & Chimera
:glider: Ruckus & Mayhem
:glider: Adonis & Persephone & Aphrodite
www.animalhobby.com

Taylor's Sailors
Cages, Toys, Wheels, Pouches, Treats
Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? [Re: Bubbles8i8] #505043
03/15/08 09:03 PM
03/15/08 09:03 PM
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 515
Tennessee
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fliptout Offline
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Posts: 515
Tennessee
Heard it from several people that work for Kathy.

Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? [Re: fliptout] #505045
03/15/08 09:06 PM
03/15/08 09:06 PM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 879
Northeast TN bordering VA/NC
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That sounds very credible. ohwell


Jenny tounge

Wife to Josh, Mom to Taylor heart

:glider: Coo & Chimera
:glider: Ruckus & Mayhem
:glider: Adonis & Persephone & Aphrodite
www.animalhobby.com

Taylor's Sailors
Cages, Toys, Wheels, Pouches, Treats
Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? [Re: fliptout] #505046
03/15/08 09:06 PM
03/15/08 09:06 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,983
Denton, TX
ValkyrieMome Offline OP
Glideritis Anonymous
ValkyrieMome  Offline OP
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,983
Denton, TX
Great.

That's ONE good thing in her favor.

When *was* that thread about that woman neutering? And how Kathy was appalled and going to fire her right away? Wasn't that ... SEVERAL MONTHS AGO???

Way to jump all over that problem, Kathy! Two thumbs up!




Too bad she's still a mill breeder!


Alden
"Animals can communicate quite well. And they do. And generally speaking, they are ignored." Alice Walker


Mom to Valhalla; 6 cats; 1 macaw; 2 hedgehogs;
and very many great gliders!

(plus the 2 skin kids)
valkyriegliders.com

Kyrie, nothing will ever fill the hole you left in my heart.
Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? [Re: ValkyrieMome] #505050
03/15/08 09:19 PM
03/15/08 09:19 PM
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 515
Tennessee
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fliptout Offline
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Posts: 515
Tennessee
I think that some of you just want something to complain about. I have tried to get help here all i get is complaints.
A lot of you here say welcome glad to help. but you help only when it is to your advantage or if someone agrees with you. I have had enough so i won't bother any of you again

Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? [Re: fliptout] #505062
03/15/08 09:45 PM
03/15/08 09:45 PM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,830
USA
SugarBlossoms Offline
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USA
No one can house 600 glider pairs or even 600 gliders properly unless they owned a suggie zoo with 50 plus employees FULL TIME that knew what they were doing!

We have 23 and it's a full time job for me plus most of the weekends for my husband (he's on the road during the week) and what help I get from my daughter. I don't go anywhere unless it's to buy fleece, groceries, run to the vet (notice everything I do and everywhere I go is suggie related) Most things I do from home including paying bills and purchasing on the internet.

Lots of us have about the same amount of gliders as I do and all of you know how hard it is to keep everything as perfect as we can for our babies!

All of our gliders have a MINIMUM cage of 20x32x55. We have 4 cages that are HUGE and I mean HUGE and we are pretty much out of room.

WHERE on earth would someone house that many gliders and better question... WHY? MONEY MONEY MONEY!!!

Who is going to say those 600 or pairs of gliders get attention, treats and love every single day? Does ALL of them have a Stealth or Wodent wheel to call their own? Does every single one have lots of toys...SAFE toys?

What diet are they on? Proven? I doubt it as it would take many large freezers and TONS of money to make up their diets! Not to mention the fridges needed for fruits, yogurt, etc.!!

People can tell stories all they want about how those suggies are taken care of properly but we here on GC KNOW FOR A FACT it is NOT the truth!

For 600 pairs of suggies, you're talking about needing a MANSION with a full staff just to clean out cages...not to mention an entire staff of veterinarians ON CALL 24/7!

Bologna! Those gliders are abused, UNloved, on a horrible diet with no one to play with them and not even toys to amuse themselves!!! Crammed into tiny cubes just to breed!

There is no excuse for this to be happening. All it takes is for people to be HUMANE and have common sense. Animals are NOT money...they are living breathing creatures of God with personalities and a Soul that cry out for love, the love they should NEVER have to BEG for!!!!! WE are supposed to take care of them, NOT the other way around!!!

I've got plenty more to say but I'll take it straight to the horse!


Keeper of Handprints on my Heart, You left your Footprints on my soul.
My precious loves that left to quickly, Peanut, Katie
Isabella, Kiwi, Bonnie and Monroe.

Spread your wings and glide free of pain,
Until the day I see you again.

God speed my precious angels. I love you. Mama.
Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? [Re: SugarBlossoms] #505068
03/15/08 09:53 PM
03/15/08 09:53 PM

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Litlredneckmama
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I also heard that Kathy fired Samantha, but I also heard she was just out on maternity leave, that she will be back in September. Who knows only time will tell. I hope to god that Kathy did the right thing and really did fire her. Samantha was wrong to be doing all the things she was doing and also giving false information. Lets all hope and pray that she is really gone for good.


Mommy to two human kids
and four suggies
plus a wife to a human, lol.

Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? [Re: ] #505069
03/15/08 09:56 PM
03/15/08 09:56 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,983
Denton, TX
ValkyrieMome Offline OP
Glideritis Anonymous
ValkyrieMome  Offline OP
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,983
Denton, TX
I'm sorry - there were TEN things on that list of what makes a mill breeder. Or did we make it Eleven?

So - she stopped pocket knife neutering at ONE of her sites. You think she needs a medal? For all the gliders she is PUMPING into rescue homes on any give weekend?

So - she no longer employs someone who neuters on site (maybe). What does that change about the way she breeds her gliders? The way she "finds homes" for them?


Alden
"Animals can communicate quite well. And they do. And generally speaking, they are ignored." Alice Walker


Mom to Valhalla; 6 cats; 1 macaw; 2 hedgehogs;
and very many great gliders!

(plus the 2 skin kids)
valkyriegliders.com

Kyrie, nothing will ever fill the hole you left in my heart.
Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? [Re: ValkyrieMome] #505202
03/16/08 01:27 AM
03/16/08 01:27 AM

S
suggiemom
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suggiemom
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S



Well, according to "Janine"....she's downsized considerably and built a $35,000 warehouse next door to her house with an automatic watering system for the hundred or so pairs she has left. Come on you guys, she really, REALLY cares about her gliders and she FINALLY got around to firing Sam! What more do you guys want?

Hmmmm fliptout, wonder how many poor suggies had to suffer at the hands of Sam before Kathy finally got around to firing her? Don't you think if even ONE glider suffered that fate it's one too many or are you condoning that treatment?

Not only is it reprehensible, it's called practicing veterinary medicine without a license and it's against the law. You and I don't get to choose which laws we abide by, what makes Sam above the same rules that apply to the rest of us? Just so she can make a couple of bucks on top of what she's already charging people for a joey. And, I don't know of a vet that will even neuter a joey before four months of age....

I'm so sorry that you feel that you're not getting help here and that we're just looking for something to complain about, but silly me, I find the torturing of innocent animals repulsive. Where did you not get help? I thought this thread was about what makes up a mill breeder? I wasn't aware it was about you.


Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? [Re: ] #505204
03/16/08 01:31 AM
03/16/08 01:31 AM

P
phayzed
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phayzed
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I was at the flea market umm...maybe a month ago??? and the lady working in the both told me that Samantha was pregnant, and was high risk.

Soooooooooo.. I definitely believe she's probably just out on maternity leave and will be back in September.

Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? [Re: ] #505397
03/16/08 11:51 AM
03/16/08 11:51 AM

L
Litlredneckmama
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Litlredneckmama
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L



I have the same feeling that she will be coming back in September. The other thing that really upsets me is that she buys back joeys and adult suggies for $75.00 then turns around and resells then for $200.00. That just aggervates me to know end. I have also seen her buy suggies back from people then put that suggie that she bought for $75.00 with another suggie that she bought for $75.00 and tell people that they have to buy both of them because they have been together since the begining, when in all actually she just put them together that day. I'm sorry to vent but it just makes me sick on some of the things that she does. Ok, enough from me for now. All we can do is pray for these poor litle suggies.

Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? [Re: ] #505415
03/16/08 12:26 PM
03/16/08 12:26 PM

K
kaylakala
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kaylakala
Unregistered
K



Incredible. I can't believe how this is allowed to continue.

Poor sweet babies.

Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? [Re: ] #505424
03/16/08 12:30 PM
03/16/08 12:30 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,983
Denton, TX
ValkyrieMome Offline OP
Glideritis Anonymous
ValkyrieMome  Offline OP
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,983
Denton, TX
PLEASE!

I am really really trying to collect evidence to stop all mill breeders!

If anyone has documentation, or you are willing to write up a first hand statement - PLEASE contact me!


Alden
"Animals can communicate quite well. And they do. And generally speaking, they are ignored." Alice Walker


Mom to Valhalla; 6 cats; 1 macaw; 2 hedgehogs;
and very many great gliders!

(plus the 2 skin kids)
valkyriegliders.com

Kyrie, nothing will ever fill the hole you left in my heart.
Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? [Re: ValkyrieMome] #505709
03/16/08 08:28 PM
03/16/08 08:28 PM
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 515
Tennessee
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fliptout Offline
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fliptout  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 515
Tennessee
Samantha is gone!!!!!!!!! I know this is true, yes she is pregnant high risk but she is not coming back, believe it or not. She has maybe 100 gliders now in a huge building. She has fresh fruits delivered a couple times a week, she feeds her gliders very well. She does hire help that is on the premises all day

Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? [Re: fliptout] #505767
03/16/08 09:10 PM
03/16/08 09:10 PM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 879
Northeast TN bordering VA/NC
Bubbles8i8 Offline
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Bubbles8i8  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 879
Northeast TN bordering VA/NC
Originally Posted By: fliptout
Samantha is gone!!!!!!!!! I know this is true, yes she is pregnant high risk but she is not coming back, believe it or not. She has maybe 100 gliders now in a huge building. She has fresh fruits delivered a couple times a week, she feeds her gliders very well. She does hire help that is on the premises all day



Have you seen all of this first-hand? Or did you just hear it from one of her employees?


Jenny tounge

Wife to Josh, Mom to Taylor heart

:glider: Coo & Chimera
:glider: Ruckus & Mayhem
:glider: Adonis & Persephone & Aphrodite
www.animalhobby.com

Taylor's Sailors
Cages, Toys, Wheels, Pouches, Treats
Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? [Re: Bubbles8i8] #505776
03/16/08 09:14 PM
03/16/08 09:14 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,983
Denton, TX
ValkyrieMome Offline OP
Glideritis Anonymous
ValkyrieMome  Offline OP
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,983
Denton, TX
Where exactly is she located? I'm due a vacation, and I'd love to verify these things for myself. If I can meet her, see her breeding operation, see her gliders, and I'm wrong - I will post the biggest apology you've ever seen, and become her biggest fan. I am seriously eager to be proven wrong!


Alden
"Animals can communicate quite well. And they do. And generally speaking, they are ignored." Alice Walker


Mom to Valhalla; 6 cats; 1 macaw; 2 hedgehogs;
and very many great gliders!

(plus the 2 skin kids)
valkyriegliders.com

Kyrie, nothing will ever fill the hole you left in my heart.
Re: What Makes a Mill Breeder? [Re: ValkyrieMome] #505790
03/16/08 09:30 PM
03/16/08 09:30 PM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 879
Northeast TN bordering VA/NC
Bubbles8i8 Offline
Glider Guardian
Bubbles8i8  Offline
Glider Guardian

Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 879
Northeast TN bordering VA/NC
I believe she is in or near Nashville, TN.


Jenny tounge

Wife to Josh, Mom to Taylor heart

:glider: Coo & Chimera
:glider: Ruckus & Mayhem
:glider: Adonis & Persephone & Aphrodite
www.animalhobby.com

Taylor's Sailors
Cages, Toys, Wheels, Pouches, Treats
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Hey! Look Whose Birthday it is!
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