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Re: Question about glue [Re: Laurens_Babies] #654107
10/10/08 07:23 AM
10/10/08 07:23 AM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 8,899
Jacksonville, FL
Xfilefan Offline
Serious Glideritis
Xfilefan  Offline
Serious Glideritis

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 8,899
Jacksonville, FL
I wouldn't use it. I wouldn't let a glider pick at it when used on skin-if they won't leave it alone-get a collar. I would not want it on a toy-because by God mine will find a way to get at it.

The first thing I had expected someone to mention (and they didn't) was this part of the chemical name of EITHER glue:

CYANO

Which is short for CYANIDE. A CYANO-anything has a cyanide component, most of which are toxic, some are deadly-even the normally non deadly can be if exposure is in sufficient amount.

A web search for CYANO will turn up a lot of info-including toxicities. Any compound with that in it's name and a red flag should go up-potassium cyanide is the instantly deadly one most have heard of-but all but one form (in a color-prussian blue) have some degree of toxicity.


Jen/Colin :bb: Commander Riker 12 16 02-10 04 12 you will be FOREVER missed :wfb: Sinbad, :wfb: Gabby, :grey: Baby, and :grey: Alley
Re: Question about glue [Re: Xfilefan] #654109
10/10/08 07:38 AM
10/10/08 07:38 AM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,570
Kansas City, MO
Laurens_Babies Offline
Glider Addict
Laurens_Babies  Offline
Glider Addict

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,570
Kansas City, MO
Originally Posted By: Xfilefan
I wouldn't let a glider pick at it when used on skin-if they won't leave it alone-get a collar.


Ok just being picky here.. the glue doesnt just disappear in a day.. still there. So I'm talking more about regular grooming.. A glider doesn't have to pick or SM after a neuter to come into contact with that glue.


~Lauren

Lauren's Animal Kingdom
*Website is down temporarily should be back up by November!*
Re: Question about glue [Re: Laurens_Babies] #654113
10/10/08 07:53 AM
10/10/08 07:53 AM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 8,899
Jacksonville, FL
Xfilefan Offline
Serious Glideritis
Xfilefan  Offline
Serious Glideritis

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 8,899
Jacksonville, FL
Externally the toxic effects of that variant should be minimal as long as it's not ingested. So far (since gluing after neuters on gliders has BEEN the lab tests on this)skin contact is survivable. Whether they have itching, burning, other effects...who knows? They aren't going to start talking and tell us. No studies have been done on them. It's "assumed" they can handle it as well as other animals-and we all know how well that works-Metacam may be fine for a cat or dog-but more than a few days can and will kill a glider. So will catnip. I had glue on ONE glider-my SM, Riker, 6 years ago. Since then, only stitches. Just because my glider can't tell me their throat is swelling and it's hard to swallow doesn't mean it's not-and I'd rather not have them in discomfort I don't know about and can't predict-medically speaking. I've been through enough SM. I won't put a glued toy in their cage or tent (among other things) either. Or anything with resins that may be harmful (a pine branch can kill). And so on. Cyanide is a known toxic agent.


Jen/Colin :bb: Commander Riker 12 16 02-10 04 12 you will be FOREVER missed :wfb: Sinbad, :wfb: Gabby, :grey: Baby, and :grey: Alley
Re: Question about glue [Re: Xfilefan] #654118
10/10/08 08:04 AM
10/10/08 08:04 AM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,570
Kansas City, MO
Laurens_Babies Offline
Glider Addict
Laurens_Babies  Offline
Glider Addict

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,570
Kansas City, MO
Well I'm with you. To me glue and glider toys automatically I would assume a no no. Intresting to think about though.. We could probably have some VERY cool toys if some sort of glue was ok


~Lauren

Lauren's Animal Kingdom
*Website is down temporarily should be back up by November!*
Re: Question about glue [Re: Laurens_Babies] #654145
10/10/08 08:46 AM
10/10/08 08:46 AM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 16,800
St. Johns, Florida
Srlb Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
Srlb  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 16,800
St. Johns, Florida
Quote:
I conceeded that the household type of super glue would be considered unsafe but NO one has given any reason why the surgical glue is unsafe to use other than it might not be durable.


I did last night after hearing back from Tristan, but when you were asked more questions there, you chose to not come back to respond any longer. Guess you missed my post.

First of all, ANY type of glue can be/is toxic. Whether it is highly toxic or low toxicity and the instructions should be followed as directed. Especially when using SURGICAL glue.

Secondly, he uses no where near the amount on a glider that would be needed for use on toys OR wheels...

If too much is ingested(surgical glue), it could be harmful to your glider. Could cause diarrhea & vomiting.
Super glue can be FATAL...

He said sorry for the short answer but he is now sick....

I can not believe you would still even be CONSIDERING this an option with even the slightest bit of doubt on the safety issue...then again, I personally dont believe this question was originated for you and your wiffle balls...


Peggy
Critter Love
Critter Love� Diet Center

If you want to know what a person is like, watch how he treats others.

You'll never know what the outcome is if you don't step up and try.

Re: Question about glue [Re: Laurens_Babies] #654146
10/10/08 08:47 AM
10/10/08 08:47 AM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,570
Kansas City, MO
Laurens_Babies Offline
Glider Addict
Laurens_Babies  Offline
Glider Addict

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,570
Kansas City, MO
Humm I just re-read your post. More in detail about gliders glue not going so well for you. I've been thru a few neuters no glue on any, so I've never really needed to think about it. BUT lmao as I stated very early in this tread I'm a pro at super glue and cuts and it feels VERY funny. I can't imagine what it feels like to the gliders. On top of the pain all ready in the neuter.


~Lauren

Lauren's Animal Kingdom
*Website is down temporarily should be back up by November!*
Re: Question about glue [Re: Laurens_Babies] #654160
10/10/08 09:10 AM
10/10/08 09:10 AM

S
suggiemom
Unregistered
suggiemom
Unregistered
S



Quote:
If it is safe for them to injest while grooming themselves post neuter, then why would the surgical type be unsafe for toy making?


I would imagine first of all that with a post neuter incision the AMOUNT of glue vs the amount needed to super glue a bunch of plastic balls together would differ.

Secondly, is ANY toy that important that you would continue with your plans to create it with ANY questions regarding the safety of the products involved??

And, you keep asking us why then is surgical grade glue ok to use for the neuters and not for toy making and Oh, I dunno, I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say firstly, that we don't all claim to be scientists or to know it all, but an ounce of common sense goes a looong way. If in doubt, THROW IT OUT.

Re: Question about glue [Re: Srlb] #654204
10/10/08 11:03 AM
10/10/08 11:03 AM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 2,785
Port Saint Lucie, FL
MatchMakerMagic Offline
Glider Addict
MatchMakerMagic  Offline
Glider Addict

Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 2,785
Port Saint Lucie, FL
off_topic

Originally Posted By: Srlb
I can not believe you would still even be CONSIDERING this an option with even the slightest bit of doubt on the safety issue...then again, I personally dont believe this question was originated for you and your wiffle balls...


But this is EXACTLY what I said about polydactylism in gliders since it was Dr. T that said there COULD be serious health complications associated with it (as well as NUMEROUS other research indicating the same), but that only time could tell... However go breed and be prosperous was the conclusion reached in that thread... Just thought I would mention that since this is potentially dangerous too and we SHOULD opt to refrain from exposing our gliders to it as well.


dunno


Kinue

ISTJ
When it rains, it pours...

www.serenitysugargliders.homestead.com
Re: Question about glue [Re: MatchMakerMagic] #654230
10/10/08 12:06 PM
10/10/08 12:06 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 16,800
St. Johns, Florida
Srlb Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
Srlb  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 16,800
St. Johns, Florida
Kinue, we see it differently, but thats ok. I still love ya grin

Glue has been PROVEN to be toxic and/or cause illness if too much is ingested...

The polydactylism has not been. There has been no studies bringing health conditions and polydactulism together.


Peggy
Critter Love
Critter Love� Diet Center

If you want to know what a person is like, watch how he treats others.

You'll never know what the outcome is if you don't step up and try.

Re: Question about glue [Re: Srlb] #654247
10/10/08 12:25 PM
10/10/08 12:25 PM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,224
North Fort Worth - TX
jacknsally Offline
Glider Addict
jacknsally  Offline
Glider Addict

Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,224
North Fort Worth - TX
Plastic and glues do not go well- most glues only work with a surface that will absorb some of the glue giving a tighter bond. Any glue that is strong enough to bond 2 plastics permanetly together, cannot be safe for gliders even once dried.

Just use a strip of fleece to tie the wiffle balls together.

Ta da- safe toy for the gliders.


ancy
~Always on my mind & in my heart Jack, Sally & Serenity~


Mobmilli's Boutique
Re: Question about glue [Re: jacknsally] #654287
10/10/08 01:37 PM
10/10/08 01:37 PM

S
suggiemom
Unregistered
suggiemom
Unregistered
S



Quote:
Ta da- safe toy for the gliders.


And there ya have it.....LOL

Re: Question about glue [Re: ] #654302
10/10/08 02:03 PM
10/10/08 02:03 PM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,664
Hudson Valley, NY
krysKritters Offline
Glider Addict
krysKritters  Offline
Glider Addict

Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,664
Hudson Valley, NY
ADULT MALE glider gets nuetered only ONCE in his lifetime, So he could be potentially exposed to a SMALL amount of glue ONE TIME...but the glider would be exposed MULTIPLE times to the toy and potentially the glue.

I also brought up ADULT MALE glider b/c somethings act differently between sexes...
there could be harmful outcomes in a FEMALE exposed to glue, not to mention a momma w/ joeys ip or the joeys themselves!
Joeys immune systems are not as strong as an adults.


Krys DeRosa
Godfather of the NY Glider Mafia

KrysKritters.comcloud9

A child with Autism is not ignoring you, they are waiting for you to enter their world.
Re: Question about glue [Re: ] #654353
10/10/08 03:32 PM
10/10/08 03:32 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,748
80 acres of paradise in KS
Dancing Offline OP
Glideritis Anonymous
Dancing  Offline OP
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,748
80 acres of paradise in KS
Jen, you have been the first to give what I see as credible insite on this. The cyanide aspect is definately a concern.

As I already said, I will, for my toy, use the soldering iron and "weld" them together.


I'm still intrigued/concerned by the use of it for neutering. I see a lot of assumptions that the amount I was considering using was somehow vasty more than one or two drops (less than being used on a neuter with extra drops).

I did some more research and found that cyano is a carbon atom joined to a nitrogen atom. It can then be joined to another atom at the carbon atom or joined back to another cyano (again at the carbon atom)forming cyanogen. Depending on just which atom, determines what type of substance it becomes. For example, if joined with a hydrogen atom, it becomes hydrogen cyanide.

Acrylate are the salts and esters of acrylic acid and is what makes up most plastics and vinals.

When these two compounds (combinations of atoms) are combined (again at the carbon atoms), the two become "super glue".

In order for the cyanide to be toxic or lethal, the compound must be able to release cyanide ions. Methal cyanide does NOT release the cyanide ions.

So, methal cyano acrylate (super glue) would not release the cyanide ions. Hence, why it isn't a lethal form of cyanide.

However, the Methal is a combo of Myristic, ether and alcohol. It is considered an alcohol in the methane series. Also known as methyl alcohol and acording to the MSDS sheet is highly toxic and can not be made non poisonous. It effects the nervous system and the liver.

So, I suppose the "lethal/toxic" issue here would be the amount of exposure to it.

With the super glue, not worth the risk with a small animal.


The surgical super glue is 2-octyl cyanoacrylate. Still researching the 2-octyl aspect of it...





620-704-9109
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


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Re: Question about glue [Re: Laurens_Babies] #654454
10/10/08 06:46 PM
10/10/08 06:46 PM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 582
Lake Worth, FL
Msdoolittle Offline
Glider Lover
Msdoolittle  Offline
Glider Lover

Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 582
Lake Worth, FL
I'm pretty sure formaldehyde is a human carcinogen.


~Janet~
Mom to 2 daughters (Laura & Kayla)
4 suggies (Scooter & Snickers, Coral,& Portia)
3 birds (Prince,Lucy,Sidney)
1 dog (Sammy)

Re: Question about glue [Re: Msdoolittle] #654462
10/10/08 07:03 PM
10/10/08 07:03 PM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,970
Spring, Texas
Trigger Offline
Glider Addict
Trigger  Offline
Glider Addict

Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,970
Spring, Texas


-(`v)-MO MONEY!-(`v)-
kids Chance, Dylan, John, & Kayla
Skittles, Snupi, Snuki, Lucy, Shanu, Caspian, Ivy, Kalysta, Kaliya, Santee, Cheyenne, Apache, Comanche, Twirpy, Meribelle, Santeria, Shyamalan, Sebastian, Zoey, Naira & Katsu
www.jensfuzzyfriends.com
Re: Question about glue [Re: Trigger] #655743
10/13/08 03:49 PM
10/13/08 03:49 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 11,158
Tampa, FL
Xglider Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
Xglider  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 11,158
Tampa, FL
I had not really been following this thread ... as a toy maker myself I always think first about safety first I would never even think about using something that *might* cause a health risk Glue is definitely on that list of NO


* ~ * John * ~ * Sorry store is closed at this time.. <br>
Link -> ~~ XtremeGlider ~~ Home of the original Re~set Toys! ~~ <br>
Oct 2012 update.. miss my gliders and my
glider family and think of my friends often!!!
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