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honey #671267
11/09/08 11:27 PM
11/09/08 11:27 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,720
Perry, Iowa
josefine Offline OP
Glider Addict
josefine  Offline OP
Glider Addict

Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,720
Perry, Iowa
ok, i know that i already asked this a few days ago, but what is the final concensus regarding honey.
raw or regular
i read thru everything, & it seemed that there were more pros than cons, but i would want to go w/what is safest.
i don't mean to get everything all riled up, again, but there are certain things that actually have to be spelled out for me, before i can get it, the spiders up in my brain are constantly running out of room to build their cobwebs!!! & another bad point on me, is that @ one time i was a blonde (need i make anymore analagies?)
thanx for all of your input, knowledge, & patience w/me
talk @ ya L8R
josefine


Larry & Josefine Vodenik
2014 4 St
Perry,Iowa50220
515/321-6081cell#
j.vodenik@hotmail.com
Re: honey [Re: josefine] #671373
11/10/08 01:48 AM
11/10/08 01:48 AM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 21,060
Kansas
L
LSardou Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
LSardou  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
L

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 21,060
Kansas
hug2 I would say that if Peggy (srlb) suggests Raw than that's what I would use. You could send her a PM just to get a clarification to be on the safe side.

Re: honey [Re: LSardou] #671435
11/10/08 04:30 AM
11/10/08 04:30 AM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 9,173
Edwardsville, Kansas 66113
Judie Offline
Serious Glideritis
Judie  Offline
Serious Glideritis

Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 9,173
Edwardsville, Kansas 66113
I have fed my gliders Honey from the Bee Keeper for years.

The Honey is filtered and then bottled and sold to HyVee and other grocery stores in my area.

Do not purchase Honey with the Honey Cone in it.

Re: honey [Re: LSardou] #671437
11/10/08 04:32 AM
11/10/08 04:32 AM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 8,899
Jacksonville, FL
Xfilefan Offline
Serious Glideritis
Xfilefan  Offline
Serious Glideritis

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 8,899
Jacksonville, FL
Keep in mind that with raw honey (unfiltered, unpasteurized) the risk of botulism rises-it is why it's recommended not to give honey at all to infants under 1 year of age, raw or processed, since even processed it still carries a small risk. Although my leadbeaters contains honey, I do wonder if it contributes to some of the liver issues we're seeing in our gliders-but that's kind of beside the point. I wouldn't recommend raw.


Jen/Colin :bb: Commander Riker 12 16 02-10 04 12 you will be FOREVER missed :wfb: Sinbad, :wfb: Gabby, :grey: Baby, and :grey: Alley
Re: honey [Re: LSardou] #671448
11/10/08 05:31 AM
11/10/08 05:31 AM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,570
Kansas City, MO
Laurens_Babies Offline
Glider Addict
Laurens_Babies  Offline
Glider Addict

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,570
Kansas City, MO
Originally Posted By: LSardou
hug2 I would say that since Peggy (srlb) suggests Raw than that's what I would use. You could send her a PM just to get a clarification to be on the safe side.


I thought it was raw that was NOT supposed to be used. That pure clover honey was what is suggested?? LOL who knows I might have my wires crossed.


~Lauren

Lauren's Animal Kingdom
*Website is down temporarily should be back up by November!*
Re: honey [Re: Laurens_Babies] #671454
11/10/08 06:10 AM
11/10/08 06:10 AM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,305
Florida, USA
oakley Offline
Glider Slave
oakley  Offline
Glider Slave

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,305
Florida, USA
Lauren... I think I do remember something being said about raw honey not being the best... I just use plain old store-bought clover honey (the one in the bear tounge ) and my gliders seem to like it just fine.

But... there is a local bee farmer in my area who we have bought products from (for our own use)... if RAW honey turns out to be the way to go, what do I have to ask him to be sue the honey is safe and good for suggies?


Meghan

~__/>
{{ }}


Suggies: Basil, Mausi, Bagheera/Baloo, & the Trio
Dogs : Pretzel/Snickers
Horse: Nugget
RIP: Gato, Pepito, Pepper, and Mowgli gangel


Oakley's Glider Site
Re: honey [Re: oakley] #671474
11/10/08 08:44 AM
11/10/08 08:44 AM

T
TWilson
Unregistered
TWilson
Unregistered
T



The most common reason I hear why we do not use raw honey in feeding gliders is because it is thought to be a botulism concern.
Colstridium botulinum spores that cause botulism are everywhere in the environment. Theyre in dust, dirt, and air. The spores are even found on unwashed surfaces or unpeeled fruits and veggies. Pasteurizing or filtering does not reliably remove these spores and they can survive many hours of continued boiling.
Normally swallowing these spores is not a problem. The spores remain spores and are passed out of the body by the gut flora.

Some researchers have identified honey as being a possible source of botulism spores. They discourage giving honey to infants under 1 year because in extremely rare cases the gut flora of some infants may not be able to combat these spores and MAY result in infant botulism. Yet others have not detected these spores in honey. Furthermore, infant botulism is an unavoidable disease; most patients probably inhale and swallow the spores.

Now some background on honey itself.
Honey is a supersaturated solution of sugars, mainly fructose, glucose and maltose-like sugars. These sugars make honey hygroscopic (moisture absorbing). Honeys hyperosmotic nature prevents the growth of bacteria and yeast as it draws water out of the organism, killing them by desiccation. (Drying it up)
Honey is naturally resistant to bacteria.
Honey is also low PH, along with the sugar concentration make honey an antimicrobial agent. The high acidity of honey plays an important role in the system which prevents bacterial growth. Honey is only around 18% water after bees cure it and with a PH average of 3.9, honey is very stable and can last forever if stored covered tightly.
If honey is left exposed to air, it will absorb water from the air. The greater concentration of water in the air will allow yeast to multiply and honey will ferment.

Raw Honey- raw honey is rich in minerals, vitamins, antioxidant compounds and beneficial enzymes that allow for proper calcium absorption, effective carbohydrate assimilation, probotics for friendly bacteria in the gastrointestinal tract. Phytonutrients in raw honey include healthy by products such as propolis, a gummy substance full of enzymes created by bees when they add their own proteins with tree sap and other plant resins. It also has enzyme and protein packed pollen.

Commercially processed honey is honey that is heated to high temperatures to sterilize or pasteurize it. This process is unnecessary as there are no microbes in honey. The only way microbes can get into honey is from contamination by human hands after it is extracted from the comb. Even then, these microbes will immediately be destroyed by the honeys osmotic powers. When honey is commercially processed, honey is cooked and filtered by high pressure pumps until it is devoid of most of its mineral, nutrients, enzymes, antioxidants and photonutrients. When heated over 118 degrees, honey has its health benefits greatly reduced or completely eliminated.
Honey is processed commercially because WE prefer the clarity and light color that comes from processing out all what we see as impurities, when actually it is the healthy ingredients.
Remember if there are any botulinum spores in the honey, they will still be there after commercial processing that is why the disclaimer remains on the label of the processed honey. (Do not feed to infants under 1 year)

From what I am finding, raw honey is extremely beneficial in many ways and commercially processed honey only removes the good qualities of honey and all that is left is sugar.
The risk of botulism from honey is inconclusive due to the fact it the clostridium botulinum spores are everywhere. The spores are only harmful to persons with a compromised immune system.

Most beekeepers do heat their honey but to a temperature of less than 120 degrees but only to liquefy more for ease of extraction. They also filter it but with filters that dont remove the beneficial ingredients, only particles of wax or bee parts. Honey processed this way is considered raw and unaltered.

Honey is commercially processed because people prefer honey to be light and clear, more pleasing to the eye.
_________________

Re: honey [Re: ] #671493
11/10/08 09:33 AM
11/10/08 09:33 AM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,124
Conroe TX
J
Jennifer_Maaske Offline
Glider Slave
Jennifer_Maaske  Offline
Glider Slave
J

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,124
Conroe TX
Just so you know.

Peggy says NEVER USE RAW HONEY.


Jennifer Maaske
4sugar gliders
2 great danes
1 American Eskimo dog
1 livestock guard dog
4 cats
2 goats
23 chicken
3children
1 Very tolerant husband

www.redemptiondayfarm.com
Re: honey [Re: Jennifer_Maaske] #671504
11/10/08 09:54 AM
11/10/08 09:54 AM

T
TWilson
Unregistered
TWilson
Unregistered
T



I use the raw honey, but not the comb honey. Had a great lengthy discussion regarding this with my vet as well as my personal physician and both tell me the risks are the same with the processed and raw, they both can potentially contain the botulism spores, but they are everywhere.

The benefits of raw versus processed is tremendous, as well as processed has 10% sugar added back into the honey after processing.

Re: honey [Re: Jennifer_Maaske] #671509
11/10/08 09:59 AM
11/10/08 09:59 AM

T
TWilson
Unregistered
TWilson
Unregistered
T



Originally Posted By: Jennifer_Maaske
Just so you know.

Peggy says NEVER USE RAW HONEY.


Peggy has said that she gets her honey from a bee keeper, beekeepers don't process honey, only strain and filter for bee parts.

Re: honey [Re: ] #671514
11/10/08 10:03 AM
11/10/08 10:03 AM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 16,800
St. Johns, Florida
Srlb Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
Srlb  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 16,800
St. Johns, Florida
I have never said to use RAW honey. I have although stated time and time again that I DO use honey from a bee farm. Well, when I have enough jugs of it that is...

Honey from a bee farm IS warmed up by the bee farmers...it contains NO honeycomb, which would than make it considered to be raw...

Honey from bee farms is safe to use, and I say this since I have been using the honey from the bee farm by Judies for the past few years with absolutely no issues...

I did forget to get some this past time however, and since I have been using the honey from Sams club...I have to say, my own PERSONAL thought....I dont like the Sams club honey as much as I do from the bee farm...The gliders eat it both ways...


Peggy
Critter Love
Critter Love� Diet Center

If you want to know what a person is like, watch how he treats others.

You'll never know what the outcome is if you don't step up and try.

Re: honey [Re: ] #671516
11/10/08 10:06 AM
11/10/08 10:06 AM

T
TWilson
Unregistered
TWilson
Unregistered
T



Oh and one more fact and I really have to get to work. LOL

If you do a reseach on honey, you will find that honey is taken to the processing plants and it is mixed with together. The honey comes from all over the world, not just the states. It comes from places such as Canada and China, mostly China and sold as a product of the USA. It was bottled here, that is how the claim is made.

With the problems coming from China and their food products, I am sticking with my local beekeeper.

Re: honey [Re: ] #671523
11/10/08 10:20 AM
11/10/08 10:20 AM

T
TWilson
Unregistered
TWilson
Unregistered
T



Same here Peggy, I prefer the beekeepers honey over the store honey. It tasted good, I thought I hated honey until I tasted it in its natural state.

If anyone is concerned or have questions about honey, RESEARCH, talk to your vet and other health professionals. I would never take anyones words as gospel when it comes to my babies, I trust them but when I firmly believe that one should KNOW the fact for themselves and make an educated decision regarding the health of and well being of their gliders.


Really, getting to work now. smile

Re: honey [Re: ] #671538
11/10/08 10:42 AM
11/10/08 10:42 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,874
Eastern NC
melek007 Offline
Glider Addict
melek007  Offline
Glider Addict

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,874
Eastern NC
Interesting thread. Thanks for the information. I like it when subjects are looked at more in depth and explained.


~ I miss my Alev, Nese & Levent ~
Re: honey [Re: melek007] #671541
11/10/08 10:47 AM
11/10/08 10:47 AM

C
chastity
Unregistered
chastity
Unregistered
C



I use the clover honey in the plastic bottle of a bear.

Re: honey [Re: ] #671558
11/10/08 11:26 AM
11/10/08 11:26 AM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,228
USA
I
IowaMisty Offline
Glider Guardian
IowaMisty  Offline
Glider Guardian
I

Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,228
USA
That's some really good information Tammy. Thanks for sharing. You've got me thinking about finding a local beekeeper.

Misty

Re: honey [Re: Jennifer_Maaske] #671560
11/10/08 11:32 AM
11/10/08 11:32 AM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,570
Kansas City, MO
Laurens_Babies Offline
Glider Addict
Laurens_Babies  Offline
Glider Addict

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,570
Kansas City, MO
Originally Posted By: Jennifer_Maaske
Just so you know.

Peggy says NEVER USE RAW HONEY.


roflmao You guys gave me one of those moments!!!! Phew.


~Lauren

Lauren's Animal Kingdom
*Website is down temporarily should be back up by November!*
Re: honey [Re: Laurens_Babies] #671585
11/10/08 12:31 PM
11/10/08 12:31 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,720
Perry, Iowa
josefine Offline OP
Glider Addict
josefine  Offline OP
Glider Addict

Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,720
Perry, Iowa
thank you so much for re-explaining all of this.
i do have a bee keeper here in perry, i will go talk w/them to see what they do & how it is made, etc.
i'm so glad i have all of you to help me w/raising my babies.
talk @ ya L8R
josefine


Larry & Josefine Vodenik
2014 4 St
Perry,Iowa50220
515/321-6081cell#
j.vodenik@hotmail.com
Re: honey [Re: josefine] #671606
11/10/08 01:10 PM
11/10/08 01:10 PM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 548
Gallatin, TN (near Nashville)
tngliderlover Offline
Glider Lover
tngliderlover  Offline
Glider Lover

Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 548
Gallatin, TN (near Nashville)
Tammy, thanks for the extensive research you did on honey. I ordered honey from your bee-keeper and my gliders are eating the HPW much better now. I took my gliders in for a vet visit a few weeks ago and they're all very healthy.

I personally don't like honey but this Tupelo honey tasted rather good!


~Lynn~

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