I just got a female joey (about 9 wks OOP) and am still in the process of bonding with her. I got her about 4(?) days ago... Anywho, I've had my male glider (Sir Nibblesworth) for a year and a half since he was 4 weeks OOP and he's never really been aggressive towards me or anyone before (except the first three days I had him), but recently he's been biting me when I have the scent of the joey on me and he tries to get at her and it LOOKS like he wants to KILL her! They sleep in seperate cages and they haven't met face-to-face yet because the first night he grabbed her tail and began biting... I don't know why he's so aggressive and I don't know when to introduce them... or how to stop this behavior on his part. The joey is very curious about him but whenever she gets too close, he crabs and lunges. HELP PLEASE!!
Re: HELP!! My intact male tries to kill my new joey!
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#817163 08/04/0904:49 PM08/04/0904:49 PM
you need to wash well between touching cages and you also need a 30 day quarantine for your new joey before you even think about introducing them. I am sending you a pm for a thread to read through to hlpe you.
Debra Two sons in the U.S. Army Slaves to: Mikki, Loki & Thor dogs: Morgan & Isabella Bunnies Bob & TMan RIP Wellington, Minnie & Dazzle bunny, Willow July 6 2013, Squirtle 7-24-09, Maggie May 12-14-10
The first suggestion would have been for you to have done a 30 day quarantine prior to letting them be together. But since that has been broken, you should consider bringing both gliders in for a wellness exam to make sure that your new baby doesn't have contagious parasites. A fecal float and smear will determine this.
Is your older male neutered? If not, this will explain his aggressiveness. Until he gets used to her presence, it will less the stress between the both of them if you wash and change clothes in between cages.
Their cages should be at the minimum of 6 inches apart. They can reach through the bars and try to grab what ever they can.
It will be easier on your new little one if you give her time to adjust and settle in before introducing her or handling her to much in the beginning. Start slowly, and work your way up towards developing her trust.
If your not planning on joeys, I strongly urge you to have your male neutered before you put them together. If he is this aggressive with her now, it's going to take time for things to settle down.
Slow and gradual introductions are important, especially in your situation. Never assume at this point that they can be safe together right away.
No, they're not together in the same cage and yes, their cages are actually about 8 inches apart because when I set them close, he DID grab her tail. I've had her about 5 days now and she did settle in for the first two days. I only sat by the cage to watch and that's when I noticed Nibbler (my oldest) trying to get at her. They've never actually met to where they could touch or anything. They only see each other through the cage bars and now I carry her in a bonding pouch. I carry him in a seperate pouch so they can get each other's scents through their own pouches, but he's unsettled, so I may discontinue that... He is unaltered and he's been to the vet three times. Once when I first got him, once after a year, and a third recently. The joey will be going tomorrow. I had already scheduled an appointment. I've only had one glider at a time before, so two at a time is new for me. But, I don't want Sir Nibblesworth to be jealous... so I still take him with me to work too and he runs around in his ball while I feed the young Cheza.
Re: HELP!! My intact male tries to kill my new joey!
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#817242 08/04/0906:58 PM08/04/0906:58 PM
Linda has given you some great advice. I just wanted to chime in and say that I have five fixed males here and while they were never aggressive, they did still get noticeably more calm after they were fixed. I think you would greatly benefit from neutering your little guy. It would probably help settle him down considerably.
I would agree with the above advice, but was wondering about the fact that you got him at just 4 weeks oop? That is too young to be away from his parents, so it's amazing that he survived. There should have been a 30 day quarantine in a totally separate cage and room to avoid health issues between them, but it's to late now for that. They both need to go to the vet asap to make sure there aren't any health problems. Lastly, he needs to be neutered before they are together. He will hurt her! He is way older and will try to have his way with her, if ya know what I mean, and they shouldn't be bred without any lineage and because she is way too young to even be with him. I'm not trying to be rude, but they really should not be together now for her safety.
Lynn Martel 616-272-4374 989-400-5686
Re: HELP!! My intact male tries to kill my new joey!
[Re: gliderma]
#817323 08/04/0910:08 PM08/04/0910:08 PM
Thanks, I knew they shouldn't be in the same cage until she's older. That's why they've been in seperate cages and they haven't met except seeing one another through cage bars that are 8 inches apart, but the advice I was given was to put their cages next to one another. As I have said, she does have an appointment and he was at the vet not more than a month ago. I wasn't actually going to put Cheza with Nibbler until she was much, much older. I'm still not sure if I want to go through with neutering. Up until now he's been very, very sweet. It's definitely something I will consider though.
Re: HELP!! My intact male tries to kill my new joey!
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#817414 08/05/0912:25 AM08/05/0912:25 AM
Yes, I got Nibbler when he was VERY young. The breeder told me to hand-feed him every four hours and I tended to him like he was my own baby. lol He was extremely tiny and he bonded with me in three days. He was fed a mixture of gliderade, grapes, and oranges. Mostly gliderade... and I think that may also be another thing. He may get jealous because I'm feeding her gliderade?? He loves that stuff... but I always give him at least a quarter of it when I bring it out. Anyway, I know most people don't have the time, but I brought him to work, school, anywhere I went and took him out to feed him every four hours as told. My teachers loved him!
Re: HELP!! My intact male tries to kill my new joey!
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#817419 08/05/0912:33 AM08/05/0912:33 AM
Please research how to do ssllllllooooooow introductions. Like everyone else said, I wouldn't do it until after the male is neutered and the female is older. Gliders *can* kill eachother during introductions. Be aware that some introductions never work out. But oftentimes, females and neutered males can make great companions when introduced slowly.
Welcome to GC
Re: HELP!! My intact male tries to kill my new joey!
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#817464 08/05/0908:32 AM08/05/0908:32 AM
He was fed a mixture of gliderade, grapes, and oranges. Mostly gliderade... and I think that may also be another thing. He may get jealous because I'm feeding her gliderade?? He loves that stuff... but I always give him at least a quarter of it when I bring it out.
Quite honestly, you're very lucky he lived due to his age and improper diet. You were given the wrong information about what to feed him and he should have been nursing for a minimum of 4 more weeks. It's easy to tell how much you love your babies! What diet do you have them on? Gliderade should be given no more than one time a week. I give it in their water bottle on Tuesdays, when I feed them and the next night when I feed them, I replace it with fresh spring water. I swear, they KNOW when it's Tuesday! LOL!
You're doing great by listening and researching. Kudos to you for both! Let us know what the vet has to say and we'd love pictures when you get a chance!
I don't know why you think it should only be fed once a week... Even on the label, it says should be "provided daily" but... maybe you're thinking of some different supplement. I fed him grapes because they were softer and oranges because he liked them the most (he still does). I never had an issue with him "surviving". Honestly, I'm kinda offended that you think it's a miracle he survived. Now Cheza (whom IS 9 weeks OOP and a bit bigger than Nibbler was when I got him) and Nibbler eat a variety of peaches, mangos, oranges, apples, grapes, tangerines, watermelon (as a treat once in a while for Nibbler. Cheza hasn't had any), papaya, nuts (treats once in a while), mealworms, crickets, cooked lean beef, and gliderade DAILY for Cheza.
Anyway, Cheza did get a clean bill of health from Dr. McGehee and she's been moved to a different room from Nibbler. I also don't have Nibbler with me today, but tomorrow I will be bringing him to work again.
Re: HELP!! My intact male tries to kill my new joey!
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#817646 08/05/0902:22 PM08/05/0902:22 PM
You should not feel offended by our concern. It is truly amazing that such a young joey would survive on that diet. You really should get them on an approved diet like HPW, BML or Pricilla's. There are others, you can research them all in the diet forum. As far as the red meat, they would do better with boiled chicken for protein and citrus, such as oranges & tangerines should be given only occassionally to avoid problems. Crickets can be a problem too, so I hope they are from a reputable source. Gliderade is a supplement and shouldn't be fed daily, depending on the diet you use. I personally don't feed nuts or any type of pellet food. As far as your user name, I was just curious, because the owners don't usually let you change it unless you have a very good reason. Hope you are finding some good info here to help keep your suggies safe & healthy!
Lynn Martel 616-272-4374 989-400-5686
Re: HELP!! My intact male tries to kill my new joey!
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#817653 08/05/0902:33 PM08/05/0902:33 PM
I don't know why you think it should only be fed once a week... Even on the label, it says should be "provided daily" but... maybe you're thinking of some different supplement. That's what I've read here on GC and how I give it to mine. I fed him grapes because they were softer and oranges because he liked them the most (he still does). I never had an issue with him "surviving". Honestly, I'm kinda offended that you think it's a miracle he survived.
I'm so sorry! I didn't mean to offend you. It's NOTHING against YOU! I promise! It's because of your care that he did survive! I meant it was a miracle that he survived, because he was so teeny tiny and the diet he should have had at that time, was not what you had been told to feed him.
They can't have too much citrus because it inhibits the absorption of calcium, I believe. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong. Sometimes I just know what they can and can't have and how much, but forget why.
My Roo was about a month OOP when I rescued him and he had been fed frozen veggies, apple slices and chicken baby food. I considered it a miracle that he survived, because the diet did not provide the proper nutrition he needed at his age. Without a proper diet, their lives will be shortened due to lack of vital nutrients.Now Cheza (whom IS 9 weeks OOP and a bit bigger than Nibbler was when I got him) and Nibbler eat a variety of peaches, mangos, oranges, apples, grapes, tangerines, watermelon (as a treat once in a while for Nibbler. Cheza hasn't had any), papaya, nuts (treats once in a while), mealworms, crickets, cooked lean beef, and gliderade DAILY for Cheza. Gliders need a balanced ratio of fruits, veggies and protein. Lean beef is not a preferred protein. Chicken has less fat. There are many approved diets listed here that will help you choose what works best for you and your babies to ensure a long, healthy life. Approved glider diets Again, please forgive me for offending you in any way!
Please understand this is not your fault...you were misinformed by the breeder. A breeder should not be selling or giving away joeys that young. Oftentimes a joey separated from its parents that young will die. It is not normal for a new glider owner to have to do round-the-clock feedings like that. Typically joeys go to their new homes at 8-9 weeks out of pouch when they are weaned. At this point, they are doing a much better job feeding themselves and are ready to be separated from mom and dad.
It sounds like you did your very best providing this little one round the clock care to make sure he pulled through. We are all just shocked that a breeder would give you a joey that young. It's not what's best for the joey, and is very risky to its health. Normally people wouldn't give their glider glideraide that often...but you were in a position where you HAD to to keep your joey alive...really, the breeder never should have given you a joey that young, unless it was something like an abandoned/rejected joey that you were helping to raise.
You will need to wait until the joey is quite a bit older and can hold its own against your male before doing introductions. We're glad you found our board so people who are experienced with gliders can help you out
Please do check out our diet pages...I think you will find some diets for your gliders that are more nutritionally balanced and also even easier to feed. They have better lean protein sources and more calcium, both very important to glider nutrition.
It concerns me there is a breeder in your area giving out babies this young though...do you know if all the joeys she sends out to homes are this young? Maybe you could help educate her that this is NOT normal or OK...
Last edited by 7glider7; 08/05/0902:38 PM.
Re: HELP!! My intact male tries to kill my new joey!
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#817672 08/05/0902:57 PM08/05/0902:57 PM
Yea, her name is Venette. She runs Helen's Little Critters. It wasn't until after I read "Boycott these breeders" on Glider-University.org that I realized she wasn't a reputable breeder... I had volunteered for her about two years ago and worked with her daughter. Her daughter gave me Nibbler for free after I'd been volunteering so long and she taught me all she knew about gliders and the other exotics they carried. I think all the gliders they sell are that young (Helen's little Critters). Venette's daughter sells them when they're about 7-9 weeks OOP now, but Nibbler was very young. I didn't realize it was out of the norm for a while. I read that Venette gave out a joey that was about Nibbler's age, maybe younger, and the person didn't give round-the-clock care... unfortunately it passed away. Another one Venette had neutered herself... and he died. I don't work with her anymore after reading about the things she's done.
Thank you for all your advice. I didn't know I shouldn't feed the citrus that often... I'll look up the diets on here and I'll try chicken instead. I think that's what Cheza's previous owner was feeding her for protien anyway.
I do get crickets, but mostly mealworms, from PetsMart. He gets about two mealworms every other day. I gave him a pinkie once because I read it was high in protein... but I didn't do it again. It was too brutal.
Re: HELP!! My intact male tries to kill my new joey!
[Re: suggiemom1980]
#817676 08/05/0903:01 PM08/05/0903:01 PM
Thank you. I'm sorry I was snappy. ^_^;; I felt I did the best I could with Nibbler. I took your comment as "It's a miracle he survived in your care." not as "It's a miracle he survived because he was so young." He got ALL of my attention for the first 6 months of his life. lol He really is very, very affectionate and sweet. I'd never seen him aggressive before until now... My mom thinks it's because he's jealous. Cheza and Nibbler won't have a playdate until she's at least his size and a lot older. Again, thank you for your help and I'll definitely look at those diets you referred to.
Re: HELP!! My intact male tries to kill my new joey!
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#817695 08/05/0903:33 PM08/05/0903:33 PM
You are welcome! I am so glad you are here and willing to do what's best for your babies! You will see how great they can be on a good diet and the proper steps to introductions. How bout letting us see your little ones? We love pictures!
Lynn Martel 616-272-4374 989-400-5686
Re: HELP!! My intact male tries to kill my new joey!
[Re: gliderma]
#817710 08/05/0904:14 PM08/05/0904:14 PM
Thanks for welcoming me. I got a disposable camera, but only took one picture of Cheza because of the flash... >.< I don't have any other cameras. I'll see if my mom will let me use her iPhone though. I have PLENTY of pictures of Nibbler though. When I get home, I'll have to show you. He's a gorgeous boy. ^_^ If my mom lets me use her camera, I'll have pictures of Cheza to show also. She's pretty big for being 9 weeks OOP.
Re: HELP!! My intact male tries to kill my new joey!
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#817737 08/05/0905:28 PM08/05/0905:28 PM
Thank you. I'm sorry I was snappy. ^_^;; I felt I did the best I could with Nibbler. I took your comment as "It's a miracle he survived in your care." not as "It's a miracle he survived because he was so young." He got ALL of my attention for the first 6 months of his life. lol He really is very, very affectionate and sweet. I'd never seen him aggressive before until now... My mom thinks it's because he's jealous. Cheza and Nibbler won't have a playdate until she's at least his size and a lot older. Again, thank you for your help and I'll definitely look at those diets you referred to.
Not a problem! You can't see facial expressions or hear voice inflections in the printed word and naturally, you're protective and defensive of your care of your babies! Nibbler is very lucky to have you for his mommy. He would not be here if not for you!
You're very welcome for the help. We all just want your babies to be happy and healthy!
we all are a very compationate(sp)people.we do get carried away sometimes w/how we word things,but that is because we care so much for all gliders,whenever one is ill,we all are too!!we keep up w/each other all the time,we keep learning from each other all the time,even sometimes some of the oldtimers will learn from us,i know that sounds weird,as e mostly learn from them,but it can be turned around. i'm so glad that you are going to wait @ least 8months(?) before you have them together,this way she will be safer. we love our little ones,& many times we come across as being bossy,this forum does say'for the good of the glider', & we do mean that!!!!!!!!! welcome aboard,i will be looking forward to seeing your pic's,we all love pics!!!!!!!!! talk @ ya L8R
Larry & Josefine Vodenik 2014 4 St Perry,Iowa50220 515/321-6081cell# j.vodenik@hotmail.com
Re: HELP!! My intact male tries to kill my new joey!
[Re: josefine]
#817943 08/06/0912:39 AM08/06/0912:39 AM
These are some of Nibbler's pictures. Unfortunately, I never took pictures when I first got him, but I got an awesome camera phone when he was a tad older. He's still pretty small in the pictures though. He used to sit in the little measuring cup I had and lick up every bit of gliderade he could! lol Sooo cute! And the one with the banana was about two months ago.
Last edited by Lunar_Flower; 08/06/0912:40 AM.
Re: HELP!! My intact male tries to kill my new joey!
[Re: josefine]
#817950 08/06/0912:48 AM08/06/0912:48 AM
Here are some of Cheza that I took earlier today at work. =P I went kinda picture-crazy, but my mom ended that real quick.
I just want to thank you all for having such big hearts! I'm really glad I found this place. In these pictures, you can sorta see where I was making a shopping list for the HPW(?) & BML diets. XD haha Which do ya'll recommend?
Re: HELP!! My intact male tries to kill my new joey!
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#817966 08/06/0901:11 AM08/06/0901:11 AM
What sweet pictures! "Hey mom, I'll help with the grocery list!"
I use HPW. I think it is easier to make, my gliders love it and are all very healthy, I think they smell better and their coats are awesome. The only drawback is you have to order the Wombaroo and bee pollen online. BML can be made with ingredients from the grocery store and pet store. I've never fed BML but I know a lot of owners swear by it!
These are some of Nibbler's pictures. Unfortunately, I never took pictures when I first got him, but I got an awesome camera phone when he was a tad older. He's still pretty small in the pictures though. He used to sit in the little measuring cup I had and lick up every bit of gliderade he could! lol Sooo cute! And the one with the banana was about two months ago.
He looks awesome! You can see how much he is loved and how much he loves you! You should reserve banana for rare treat time tho. It has a lot of phos in it. Cute cute pictures! My fave is him sitting in the cup waiting for food!
Thank you! Yea, he normally doesn't eat bananas (1) because this book I have said it was high in phosphorous and (2) he doesn't normally like bananas. But a lady at work wanted to feed him some so, I figured if he ate it, then sure. lol
Re: HELP!! My intact male tries to kill my new joey!
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#818015 08/06/0908:42 AM08/06/0908:42 AM
I personally like HPW. It is the only diet I have used. My gliders all love it, they have very beautiful fur coats and are healthy. I like the fact that you can offer a variety of fruits, veggies & treats, which are limited in the other diets. I get my HPW powder & bee pollen from sugeebaby at thepamperedglider.com.