Sugar Glider Community Calendar

Please click here to see larger view
Articles
More coming soon!!
Today's Birthdays
No Birthdays
Member Spotlight
None yet
Show All Member Profiles 
Last 10 Posts
Just cant win with gliders lol.
by mechnut450. 09/20/21 05:03 PM
New glider parent here
by AgamanNibo. 09/19/21 09:31 PM
Coat Health& Constipation
by cookielover. 09/18/21 11:28 PM
Ant Invasion
by Ladymagyver. 09/07/21 10:36 AM
Nail trimming UGH!
by Feather. 08/27/21 07:44 PM
2022 Sugar Glider Calendar and Cafe Press Store
by theresaw. 08/24/21 11:23 AM
Google+

Facebook
Join Us On Facebook
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 2 of 2 1 2
Re: Have You Seen This New Wholesome Balance Diet? [Re: ] #824109
08/19/09 12:37 PM
08/19/09 12:37 PM
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 3,204
Sedona, AZ
ozzi Offline
Glider Addict
ozzi  Offline
Glider Addict

Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 3,204
Sedona, AZ
I just ordered some for the Boo Boys so "THEY" will let you know taste wise how it is :O)
I like to keep a dry food in the cage for them for their afternoon snackin' so I will try this for them. glider glider
angel
Pat, Boo-Boo, and BJ wave


Pat
You have not lived until you have done something for someone who can never repay you.....Unknown

Rest in Peace our little sweet friends that have crossed over the "Rainbow Bridge".
I miss you gangel Boo-Boo, Lucy, BJ, and Fivel gangel
Re: Have You Seen This New Wholesome Balance Diet? [Re: ] #824114
08/19/09 12:42 PM
08/19/09 12:42 PM

B
BabyLoveGliders
Unregistered
BabyLoveGliders
Unregistered
B



Quote:
We are still picking from BML, HPW, Darcy's, Reeps, Suncoast, etc. as a main diet, and this new food hasn't been studied in combination with other diets either.


and it would not be either.. BML and HPW does not have a dry staple called for in their diets.. Suncoast does of course, as does PML, Dr. Cathy Johnson-Delaney,Darcy's. etc.. those diets will need to be weighed against Insectivore-Fare which they call for.

Re: Have You Seen This New Wholesome Balance Diet? [Re: ] #824118
08/19/09 12:46 PM
08/19/09 12:46 PM

B
BabyLoveGliders
Unregistered
BabyLoveGliders
Unregistered
B



I truly hope the day never comes that people will reach in, stoop out some food from a bag and feed it to their gliders all day, everyday!

Last edited by BabyLoveGliders; 08/19/09 12:47 PM.
Re: Have You Seen This New Wholesome Balance Diet? [Re: ] #824121
08/19/09 12:49 PM
08/19/09 12:49 PM

A
AmyLynn
Unregistered
AmyLynn
Unregistered
A



I totally agree with you Kris. Gliders need variety and can not live on kibble alone.

Re: Have You Seen This New Wholesome Balance Diet? [Re: ] #824131
08/19/09 01:11 PM
08/19/09 01:11 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,839
roseville, mi
H
hwh4ev Offline
Glider Addict
hwh4ev  Offline
Glider Addict
H

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,839
roseville, mi
i would hope that would not happen, maybe to the uninformed
only.
regards,
nancy in detroit


regards,
nancy in roseville (formerly in detroit)
Re: Have You Seen This New Wholesome Balance Diet? [Re: ] #824139
08/19/09 01:23 PM
08/19/09 01:23 PM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,667
Long Island, NY
Gossamer Offline
Glider Slave
Gossamer  Offline
Glider Slave

Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,667
Long Island, NY
Totally agree. I don't even feed my cats dry kibble alone. Yes, it provides the nutrition they need - but they are much happier and healthier when I add a wet food or some cooked chicken.


Jeannine

3 Cats (Spike, Kismet, Honeycat)
1 understanding Husband
1 WFB Neutered Glider boy - Grissom! (oop 8/7/06) :wfb:
1 BB Glider girl- Willows! (oop 1/7/07) :bb:
Re: Have You Seen This New Wholesome Balance Diet? [Re: ] #824150
08/19/09 01:36 PM
08/19/09 01:36 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,748
80 acres of paradise in KS
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
Dancing  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,748
80 acres of paradise in KS
I have some concerns, questions and comments. I have 30+ gliders and have had gliders for over 11 years. As a rescuer, I have had hundreds of gliders come through my home over the years. I have seen and used many diets over the years, including the Suncoast diet. I would LOVE an easy diet to feed the gliders but I do NOT believe that will ever come to be. Gliders are too complex and their needs are as well.
Quote:


Wholesome Balance has been actively under scrutiny in our glider colonies for over 2 years now in a 50 / 50 split trial with ZooKeeper's Secret, so we do have several years of experience with this food as a staple offering across quite a few sugar gliders.

2 years is NOT very long regardless how many gliders have been eating it. How will these gliders be doing 5 years, 10 years 15 years from now? What about the offspring of those that were fed notbing but this food. How will they do?

Wholesome Balance is a "balanced" food, meaning it does *not* have to be supplemented in any way, and also can stay in the cage for days if need be.

There will be those that feel they can just feed this food and some water and be good to go with their gliders. This may not be what Suncoast is doing with their gliders, or have done with them during their "study" of the diet. How do you know that this alone (because there ARE those looking for the easy way out) will provide the nutrition that gliders need to live healthy lives? Again, I've seen gliders survive for years on birdseed but that does not mean they are healthy or live the length of lives they could have lived.

There are those that will think that if they put this food in the cage, they can go away for days at a time and not be concerned about their gliders.


That said, our dietary approach, as with many of the other diets, is also to feed fresh foods, which *do* need to be supplemented. This is particularly true of the calcium component of supplementation. Feeding a variety of food not only provides a more complete plan of nutrition, but also by rotating foods we embrace an overall approach to animal care known as environmental enrichment. Exotic animals get bored in captivity and complete nutrition (staple plus fresh foods) encourages them to thrive, not just survive.

To many in the professional exotic community (for example, zookeepers), not providing this stimulation (both in food and habitat) would be similar to having a dog and never feeding treats or playing with the dog. The dog would survive, of course, but would not be terribly happy about the circumstances. This is why the "Australian diets" and their descendants tend to be complex; they were designed this way intentionally by zookeepers (sugar gliders cannot be kept domestically in Australia) to provide nutritional enrichment.

In some of the Australian states, they can and are being kept domestically with permits. We have several members here on GC that are in Australia.


and is convenient and less fussy for the caretaker to deal with than fresh food.

Again this is for the lazy owners. Not those that I feel should be caring/owning gliders. Gliders ARE high maintainence. By saying that this CAN be fed alone gives the message that gliders are like hamsters and easy to care for. Those of us that have taken in rescues, knows the heart break that comes from that line of thinking.

It is not meant as a *replacement* for a varied diet that includes fresh foods, though some people use it that way.

This is just too contradictory of a statement. Those that "use it that way" are no different than those that are feeding birdseed. They are not meeting the needs of the glider. Your comments "seem" as if you endorse using it alone.

At the same time, I have to say it won't hurt your gliders to miss a fresh meal or two if circumstances prevent you from being able to provide it, and this is just one more reason to provide a balanced staple food "free choice" as animal nutritionists refer to it, meaning the food is always available.

I can see circumstances such as emergency evactuations from hurricanes, etc as being the only reason for missed fresh food meals. I do not feed the Zookeepers on a daily/regular basis but I do keep some for emergencies (I live in tornado alley) as well as a supply of Pet Pro. The gliders may be able to go without their fresh foods for a few days but they should NEVER be left alone for those days and many will see this new "diet" as an easy way to go away for the weekend and leave their gliders alone at home.


I'm not saying our diet plan is "best" - anyone with the right credentials can design a good diet - but it has nurtured many happy and healthy gliders for a decade.

Your over all diet is not what is being questioned. I have seen some very beautiful and healthy gliders on the Suncoast diet. This is a change to your diet so this diet has not been fed for a decade. Again my concerns lie with those that feel they can, with your say so, feed nothing but this "staple".

Hope this info helps and if you have any other questions or comments on Wholesome Balance feel free to contact me: lisa@sugar-gliders.com


I do thank you Lisa for coming and explaining Suncoast's perspective. I just think that some of what you have said is potentially dangerous to gliders. As a rescuer, this is my top concern. I think it is awesome that research has been done and done by a nutritionalist. It is an advancement for the gliders. But I believe things need to be stepped back a bit until more time has gone by and more long term (age and generations) studies have been done. This might be a healthier replacement for the Zookeepers but I feel it is irresponsible for ANYONE to say that their "staple" is enough on it's own. While Suncoast also feeds other foods, you know as well as anyone there will be those looking for the easy way out.


On another note... In the spirit of the Jorn Act. Will this new food's packaging contain expiration dates, lot numbers, storage recommendations and shelf life information?


620-704-9109
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.
Re: Have You Seen This New Wholesome Balance Diet? [Re: Viva La Glider] #824262
08/19/09 04:46 PM
08/19/09 04:46 PM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 708
Melbourne Australia
Marz Offline
Glider Guardian
Marz  Offline
Glider Guardian

Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 708
Melbourne Australia
Originally Posted By: Viva La Glider


Regarding the comments about using a staple food in general, this is an animal husbandry choice. Wholesome Balance is a "balanced" food, meaning it does *not* have to be supplemented in any way, and also can stay in the cage for days if need be.



Just my opinion on some of the issues that I see with the marketing of this "new product".

Considering we should always encourage "best practice" with glider husbandry and care, food (of any type) should never stay in a cage for a couple of days. This is particular is true of gliders who are not finicky when it comes to pooping/peeing in their own dinner bowls.

This form of lazy husbandry on a regular basis,encourages contaminated food (especially when "top up" procedures are actually suggested) which then opens the door for potential health and housekeeping issues.

Stating that the food is a balanced diet in itself is again endorsing lazy husbandry/poor diet practice ala (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets diet style. To me this is a backward step and tacking on a disclaimer that it should be supplemented doesn't get past the former words that this new dry food is a "balanced" diet.

People will just see the words "balanced diet" and their mentality will be that they read that and therefore it's okay to feed just that. Good glider owners will know better but there are many more thousands of owners out there that do not research and are looking for "easy options" in their busy lifestyles.

I would also like to add just because the gliders in the comparison preferred and ate more of this product than the other, only means it is more palatable to the glider...not that it is in anyway better for them. A good example of this...I would sit down and eat a bag of cotton candy over a plate of vegetables any day! I much prefer the taste of cotton candy!!




Quote:
This is why the "Australian Diets" and their descendants tend to be complex; they were designed this way intentionally by zookeepers (sugar gliders cannot be kept domestically in Australia) to provide nutritional enrichment.


Sugar gliders can and have been kept in captivity in Australia for a very long time. I actually own an Australian book on gliders including their diets published over sixty years ago!

The big difference in ownership here though these days is that in three states owners require a basic licence and there are strict guidelines for cage sizes etc Other states require more involved licencing procedures which are not obtainable by the general public unless they want to become registered wildlife educators/demonstrators etc


The only thing I can see could be complex in our diets here is the availability of native plants though a lot of people in the USA are now growing their own.



Quote:
For example, in the original Taronga Zoo diet, the source of the original Leadbeater's Mix formula, there is this entry - On Wednesdays: feed day old chick when available.


To clarify a common misconception, Taronga zoo is not the original source of the leadbeaters formula but it was where people in the USA got the diet information from for modifying their own diets.

Taronga zoo also has not had day old chickens on their glider diet sheet for a few years now. That original diet sheet is a decade old!


Re: Have You Seen This New Wholesome Balance Diet? [Re: Marz] #824299
08/19/09 05:36 PM
08/19/09 05:36 PM

B
BabyLoveGliders
Unregistered
BabyLoveGliders
Unregistered
B



Quote:
Taronga zoo also has not had day old chickens on their glider diet sheet for a few years now. That original diet sheet is a decade old!


hey Marz... I had asked you for the new one without the day old chick.. were you able to locate it for me? The one we exchanged PMs about on SGN still has it listed.

Re: Have You Seen This New Wholesome Balance Diet? [Re: ] #824315
08/19/09 06:01 PM
08/19/09 06:01 PM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 21,060
Kansas
L
LSardou Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
LSardou  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
L

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 21,060
Kansas
Marz, I would be interested in a copy of the updated one too! Thanks.

Re: Have You Seen This New Wholesome Balance Diet? [Re: LSardou] #824338
08/19/09 06:55 PM
08/19/09 06:55 PM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,228
USA
I
IowaMisty Offline OP
Glider Guardian
IowaMisty  Offline OP
Glider Guardian
I

Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,228
USA
Marz, I am very interested in that recipe too, if you could find it for me. I would like to update the recipe on my website with the correct information.

You guys are giving some great feedback & expressing a lot of the concerns I had as well.

And yes Lisa thank you for your input. I have a lot of the same concerns as everyone else though about this being advertised as a balanced diet when it's really not and enough research really hasn't been done to prove that it is.

I agree it may be a better option than Zookeeper's Secret as a staple food for daytime snacking or even for emergencies. But I am also concerned that newbies and lazy people will think they're doing a great thing by feeding only Wholesome Balance to their gliders, when actually it should be just more of a supplement to a main diet.

Misty

Re: Have You Seen This New Wholesome Balance Diet? [Re: Marz] #824515
08/20/09 06:38 AM
08/20/09 06:38 AM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,667
Long Island, NY
Gossamer Offline
Glider Slave
Gossamer  Offline
Glider Slave

Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,667
Long Island, NY
Personally, I believe a lazy owner is a lazy owner. Someone who is feeding their gliders correctly isn't just going to abandon thier whole nutrition philosophy because there is a new pellet on the market. Those that will feed it as the only source of food, are most likely doing that anyway with a different pellet. I'd rather see them offer this than the stupid (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets pellets that aren't even made for gliders. JMHO.


Jeannine

3 Cats (Spike, Kismet, Honeycat)
1 understanding Husband
1 WFB Neutered Glider boy - Grissom! (oop 8/7/06) :wfb:
1 BB Glider girl- Willows! (oop 1/7/07) :bb:
Re: Have You Seen This New Wholesome Balance Diet? [Re: Gossamer] #824575
08/20/09 10:43 AM
08/20/09 10:43 AM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 862
Saint Petersburg, FL
Viva La Glider Offline
Glider Guardian
Viva La Glider  Offline
Glider Guardian

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 862
Saint Petersburg, FL
Dancing, Marz, IowaMisty,

Folks, I know any diet discussion is going to get people’s hackles up and I thank you for the feedback. But it seems to me we are tangling up a couple of different issues here and maybe they should be in different threads. The one topic is the new food itself, the other is a global concern for glider keeper’s behavior, a glider community ethics issue that IowaMisty first raised a few posts ago.

We should probably discuss each separately, in my opinion, because the answer to the 2nd question has nothing to do with the topic this thread was started on, the new food product we are offering.

If you look at the web page for this new product, it never says or even implies it should be fed as the only food. In fact, we go our of our way to specifically mention this and provide specific direction on what else should be fed, including links to the SunCoast diet. So I’m not sure where you would get the idea the food is being “marketed” as some kind of universal diet solution. My comment directly answered the questions posed by people on the board, and if this is what you mean by “marketing” then I guess we just differ on what that word means.

Perhaps there is a misunderstanding surrounding the word “supplement”. My response to the direct question was based on the fact this food was designed by Dr. Dierenfeld to provide all the nutrients sugar gliders need to maintain health, meaning you don’t need to add vitamin or mineral supplements to the portion of the meal involving this food. If what *you* mean by “supplement” is the entire fresh portion of the diet required in addition to the staple food, then we are talking about two completely different “supplement” ideas and I agree with you, the staple food should be “supplemented” with fresh food, as was stated in my response.

Regarding the idea some people will refuse to feed a proper diet to their gliders, people you called “lazy owners”, the so-called “All – in – One” pellet options have been available to them for years and this approach is even encouraged by the food manufacturers, which we do not do. So I’m not sure how our product would contribute significantly to this issue. I’m guessing the people calling for a 5 or 10 year evaluation of our new food are also thinking the idea of this food was to completely replace BML or another traditional diet, which is not true. However, I will say the idea of using a nutritionally balanced staple food PLUS fresh food has been tested for 10 years – that’s the SunCoast diet.

Also, Dr Dierenfeld has an understanding of dietary balance and food composition that far exceeds the knowledge of anyone on this board, myself included. The ratios in Wholesome Balance are not drastically different from other dry glider foods that have been used for a dozen or more years, we simply upgraded the ingredients to human grade ingredients as opposed to using meat byproducts, or corn and soy (both of which I believe are not good choices in glider feed). Dr D's primary role in this process was to confirm the ratios of protein:carbohydrate:fat against known entities and to bless the choice of human grade ingredients that were included to meet these ratios.

Now, and this is where the topic moves away from the original thread and perhaps a new one should be started, it also seems there is an ethical question involving the glider community at large. As IowaMisty put it, “the fact is, there are a lot of people purchasing gliders on impulse & it'd be great to have a better option than what (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets is selling them, but that isn't as confusing or time-consuming for them as a completely home-made diet”.

The ethical question is, knowing the community as a group has this problem, what can we do about it? There are two answers I can think of:

1. Continue to preach the diversified diets, knowing some (perhaps many) sugar gliders are suffering because their keepers are feeding them improperly but will not change,

or

2. Develop some kind of “universal pellet diet” (not our current product) that takes the knowledge above into consideration and elevates the health of the sugar glider population overall by replacing the low quality pellet foods many people use

Is the universal pellet approach to feeding an idea the glider community could ethically support, based on the “greater good” of the average sugar glider, as opposed to simply bemoaning the “lazy owner”?

Personally I would not try to coordinate the development of such a product without full community support given the current acceptance by most folks of a diet that includes a variety of fresh foods. I myself embrace this approach and while a single pellet food could be developed to keep sugar gliders alive and even healthy, far be it from me to deprive them of mealworm night, or summertime watermelon to name merely two of a long list of foods that gliders love. They obviously enjoy such foods and to deprive them is to deprive them of as full of life as they can possibly have in captivity.

Furthermore, when looking at animals like birds, which are kept in significantly larger numbers than sugar gliders, the vets I know recommend giving them fresh foods as well in spite of the fact of a zillion brands of bird feeds. Adding to the pellets, seeds or other form of bird foods creates extra enjoyment and pleasure. I don't believe we should keep any animals as pets if we are not willing to try our best to give them the best life possible. Variety in meals is one way we can do this.

I think IowaMisty’s insight is brilliant. As she said, she’s not *advocating* a universal pellet, but wonders if the animals as a whole would be better off if a high quality universal pellet option was available. Seems to me this is a choice the community should evaluate and decide on.

As said earlier, this ethical issue is off topic here and really deserves a thread of its own. “What can the community do about lazy owners” doesn’t really have anything to do with our new food product.


Lisa and Arnold www.sugar-gliders.com
Re: Have You Seen This New Wholesome Balance Diet? [Re: Viva La Glider] #824597
08/20/09 11:56 AM
08/20/09 11:56 AM

7
7glider7
Unregistered
7glider7
Unregistered
7



[quote=

Many of the other diet plans including the one 7glider7 mentions above are similar to the SunCoast diet because they have the same Australian "roots". At SunCoast, we simply prefer to avoid the Leadbeater's / refrigerated or frozen mix approach and feed similar components fresh on a rotating basis.
[/quote]

I do have to object to this statement. Although I believe you that Dr. Dierenfeld, as an animal nutritionist, is probably a very qualified individual to formulate a pellet diet based on the same RATIOS determined by the Aussies, there is a big difference between a pellet diet and the Australian diets.

Gliders do not eat pellets in their natural habitat. Period. They eat nectar, sap, insects, etc. This is why the Aussies invented a "nectar mixture" in the first place, so what they were feeding gliders in captivity reflected what they were eating in the wild as much as possible. This is also why I do not feed my gliders pellets, and as much as possible, I strive to provide them as natural of a diet as possible (although it can be quite hard at the sap end of things). So while I'm confident that Dr. Dierenfeld did a good job formulating the pellets based on gliders' nutritional needs, I don't really think you can compare a pellet diet to an Australian diet. You don't see the Aussies feeding gliders pellets for a reason.

However, that said, I think that Lisa brings up some excellent points about the importance of a high quality pellet being out there. There are always going to be people, no matter if we are talking about dogs, cats, birds, or gliders, who are going to do the bare minimum to take care of their animal. There are a lot of people buying gliders from mills and trade shows who thought they were getting a low-maintenance hamster, and while some of these people end up at GC and turn into fantastically dedicated owners, many of them are NOT going to be willing to spend hours obtaining ingredients and making a nectar mix like mine (or like BML, or HPW). Should these people be owning gliders? No. But they do. And I, for one, am relieved to see that there is going to be a fairly high-quality pellet out there so the gliders belonging to these lazy people can get somewhat adequate nutrition.

I don't plan on switching my gliders over for the reasons I've already stated. However, I think it's progress that this option is available. I plan on ordering some of the diet in the not-too-distant future just to keep on hand in case of an emergency (like an earthquake, power failure, etc where my frozen mix goes bad) so my gliders would have something fairly nutritious to eat (if they'll eat it...picky marsupials, lol).

Just my two cents.

Re: Have You Seen This New Wholesome Balance Diet? [Re: ] #824620
08/20/09 12:45 PM
08/20/09 12:45 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,748
80 acres of paradise in KS
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
Dancing  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,748
80 acres of paradise in KS
Lisa, my comments/concerns were based on your post here on GC and I admit I probably misread or misintrepreted the comments about not needing suppliments.

I would like to see on your site it stressed more that the pellets are only PART of the over all diet. I do realize you state that it is fed in addition to fresh foods but, well...some are thick and need it in bold letters to get the message. I totally agree that for those "lazy owners" having a better grade of pellets is fantastic and I do commend you and your "team" (researchers, glider testers etc) for coming up with a higher grade food item.

As I said, I think it is great that there are advancements done on the pellet end of glider diets as many do use them. I have some on hand "for emergencies" and would feel neglectful if I did not because you just never know what might happen.

I went and read your article.

You address Lumpy Jaw on your site in the article. Lumpy Jaw as used most often is a generic term for mouth abcesses/dental-jaw issues, not so much the actual medical condition of Lumpy Jaw. I believe most are attempting to move away from the term "lumpy jaw" because that specific medical issue has not been seen in gliders but... I have seen gliders with serious abcesses and some of those have been caused by scratches to the gums where bacteria has entered and become infected. Most of those gliders were eating hard dry pelleted foods. So for me, there is a direct corrilation between hard dry pellets and "lumpy jaw" (used here as a generic term). And, as you stated on your site, if this is a concern for people, then Zookeepers is still available and the better choice for them.

I do share the concerns with the "topping off" on the food. It is difficult, if not impossible to tell if gliders have soiled their food and replacing the dry food daily is a safer/healthier way to feed.


I also saw on your site where you state it has a 6 month shelf life. Are you also going to provide on the labeling the manufactured date, lot number and expiration date? With the concern for aflatoxins, this info is greatly appreciated by many. It seems it should be an easy addition to the manufacturing/labeling process.

A glider owner, Laura Long, after loosing many gliders to aflatoxin poisoning (the source was a pelleted food) did a presentation at one of the SGGA's regarding aflatoxins and the Jorn Act. If you have not heard about it or read the transcript, I'd be happy to send it to you.

I want to also say, I'm not attacking you or this new food item, just expressing concerns I have and asking questions so that we can all make informed decisions for our gliders.


620-704-9109
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.
Re: Have You Seen This New Wholesome Balance Diet? [Re: ] #824764
08/20/09 04:59 PM
08/20/09 04:59 PM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 708
Melbourne Australia
Marz Offline
Glider Guardian
Marz  Offline
Glider Guardian

Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 708
Melbourne Australia
Originally Posted By: BabyLoveGliders


hey Marz... I had asked you for the new one without the day old chick.. were you able to locate it for me? The one we exchanged PMs about on SGN still has it listed.


I really do not want to side track this thread so very quickly ...

Sorry about that, I was at work when you asked me but before I got home I thought about it further and
realized I do not have permission from Taronga Zoo to publish their diet sheet publically. The one that appeared on the net all those years ago didn't come directly from them either. A former employee handed it on.

However, I can say kangaroo cubes replace the day old chicks and the rest only minor tweaks. T.Z whilst a good zoo, has not spent the time on research like Healesville Sanctuary have which is why TZ used the Healesville diet at the time as the basis of their diet all those years ago. I believe they are overdue in updating their nectar mix ingredient ratios as Healesville has.


May I also mention I have seen several versions of the T.Z diet on the web which say "vionate" is the vitamin supplement used in this diet. We do not have Vionate here and I can assure you, it has never been a part of the Taronga zoo diet.


...end of sidetrack....

Re: Have You Seen This New Wholesome Balance Diet? [Re: Marz] #824767
08/20/09 05:02 PM
08/20/09 05:02 PM

B
BabyLoveGliders
Unregistered
BabyLoveGliders
Unregistered
B



Yes sorry for the side track too!! I know you dont have permission to post it publicly ... would you mind PMing it to me? Many thanks again smile

Re: Have You Seen This New Wholesome Balance Diet? [Re: ] #824777
08/20/09 05:20 PM
08/20/09 05:20 PM

B
BabyLoveGliders
Unregistered
BabyLoveGliders
Unregistered
B



Yikes.. Pmed you on SGN!! LOL

Re: Have You Seen This New Wholesome Balance Diet? [Re: ] #824792
08/20/09 05:51 PM
08/20/09 05:51 PM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 907
NE Ohio
Donnarae Offline
Glider Guardian
Donnarae  Offline
Glider Guardian

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 907
NE Ohio
This is a great discussion. I'm glad to see so much being investigated for our gliders health.

I've heard so much about some horrendous diets people have fed their gliders. One such story was that they fed it Cheetos and occasionally an apple with cat-food. ?? I wonder what they feed their skin-children?

A glider-owner in a town nearby feeds her glider ONLY fruit. ?? I've tried to get her to communicate with me but so-far she hasn't. I'd like to at least get her on this forum where she can hear all the pros and cons that we all come up with concerning out babies. If we get a get-together scheduled for this area, I'm going to really push to get her to come with me.

Thank you for posting this.


Donna & Bob,
One Miniature American Eskimo dog, Chula;
Six Gliders, Chip & Dale, Caspian & Ceridwen, Sasha & Stubby.


RIP Betty, my love.
Re: Have You Seen This New Wholesome Balance Diet? [Re: Donnarae] #831308
09/01/09 05:16 PM
09/01/09 05:16 PM

E
EverydayMiracles
Unregistered
EverydayMiracles
Unregistered
E



I was just directed over here, and at this point, I'm feeling somewhat bothered, so forgive me if I appear to be being defensive of Lisa: However, I *scoured* her site before I purchased our gliders from her, and I have done so since they came home to us as well. To be honest, before I came here, her site was the only source I could find of information I felt was credible. My only other resource had been (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets! LOL

I read, and re-read, what her site says about sugar glider nutrition, and at NO point was it ever suggested that the Zookeepers or the Wholesome Balance should be provided as the only source of nutrition. Instead, she suggests four proteins rotated for variety, fresh fruits and veggies, AND the staple food provided for daytime snacking.

It makes sense to me, and this is what we've been doing since we brought the babies home (except feeding baby food instead of insects for now -- trying insects on Friday).

For me, it was pretty clear -- they get a variety of fresh foods as well as the dry food.

Now those bad owners are going to be out there always and anyway. There is nothing that anybody can do to stop them. And trust me, when you say "bare minimum" it seems to me that you're going above and beyond what some owners are going to do -- because some of them are going to feed cat food or dog food or not pay attention and feed a lot of citrus or high phosphorus foods.

As her site says, there are a variety of paths to good nutrition, and this is just one of them.

I'm not sure where we're going to wind up in terms of what we're feeding -- yet. I am not an experienced breeder (and am probably not going to breed), but I like the idea of fresh proteins as much as possible.

Page 2 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  Feather, KarenE, Ladymagyver 

Sugar Glider Help Page



Please click above to see how you can help!!

Moon
CURRENT MOON
Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 74 guests, and 389 spiders.
Key: , , Owner, Admin
Newest Members
Max, Cheyanne, Clickp, panderola, DM15
7273 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums132
Topics10,281
Posts158,702
posts in the last 24hrs0
Members7,274
Most Online2,693
Jan 2nd, 2020
Last 10 New Topics
Just cant win with gliders lol.
by mechnut450. 09/19/21 10:21 PM
Coat Health& Constipation
by cookielover. 09/18/21 11:12 PM
New glider parent here
by AgamanNibo. 09/04/21 01:23 PM
Ant Invasion
by cookielover. 09/01/21 02:21 PM
2022 Sugar Glider Calendar and Cafe Press Store
by theresaw. 08/24/21 11:23 AM
Nail trimming UGH!
by Ladymagyver. 07/05/21 08:31 AM
Popular Topics(Views)
822,531 TEXAS
654,662 OHIO
462,032 OKLAHOMA
410,760 UTAH
303,284 NORTH CAROLINA
Supported Browser
This site was tested and is best viewed in Google Chrome & Mozilla FireFox



Firefox 3

Download your copy today!!!
Home Forums Links Sitemap Vets Breeders Sounds Contact Us Names Rules & Policies

GliderCENTRAL
©1998-2021
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software
(Release build 20180918)
Page Time: 0.054s Queries: 15 (0.017s) Memory: 1.4404 MB (Peak: 1.7493 MB) Zlib enabled. Server Time: 2021-09-21 18:08:15 UTC