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Re: Professional Rescues [Re: ] #906820
02/14/10 04:10 AM
02/14/10 04:10 AM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 458
Colorado, USA
Paani Offline
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Paani  Offline
Glider Lover

Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 458
Colorado, USA
I think you might be able to tap a pool of people who COULD be rescue/forever homes if there was an umbrella organization to handle the legalities and state the rules. I know I for one would be happy to set something up at my house and I'm lucky enough to not have to worry about vet bills or what have you. Where I would be reluctant is 1) being new to sugar gliders, I'm still learning about the two I've got now, 2) I hate paperwork and bureaucrats.

If there was a 501 I could fall under then I'd be happy to share the load as long as the rules and restrictions were stated clearly and upfront. For example, all males to be neutered before or on receipt, FDA license if more than 3 breedable females at the house, specified diet for at least XXX months (BML, HPW, whatever), etc.

It sounds to me like you need to prepare the lukewarmers that you could tap in the event of emergency, folks who haven't already committed to huge colonies but who could support increasing their colony at home if given the right guidance and top cover.


Nala, Ronald & Reuel (formerly Eladio & Petal) :plat:
Judah :rbridge: Anson :rbridge: Lele :rbridge: Laki :rbridge:
Re: Professional Rescues [Re: Paani] #906873
02/14/10 10:34 AM
02/14/10 10:34 AM
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 235
Colorado
Catman Offline
Glider Explorer
Catman  Offline
Glider Explorer

Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 235
Colorado
Originally Posted By: Paani
I think you might be able to tap a pool of people who COULD be rescue/forever homes if there was an umbrella organization to handle the legalities and state the rules. I know I for one would be happy to set something up at my house and I'm lucky enough to not have to worry about vet bills or what have you. Where I would be reluctant is 1) being new to sugar gliders, I'm still learning about the two I've got now, 2) I hate paperwork and bureaucrats.

If there was a 501 I could fall under then I'd be happy to share the load as long as the rules and restrictions were stated clearly and upfront. For example, all males to be neutered before or on receipt, FDA license if more than 3 breedable females at the house, specified diet for at least XXX months (BML, HPW, whatever), etc.

It sounds to me like you need to prepare the lukewarmers that you could tap in the event of emergency, folks who haven't already committed to huge colonies but who could support increasing their colony at home if given the right guidance and top cover.


You can help the licensed rescues! I help Jamie from suggie savers all the time.


1 son
1 wife
5 Cats
2 dogs Twiggy and spot
6 sugargliders:Ray,Cinnamon,Nick,Holly,jasmine,and bella
3 rescued gliders with no names
1 corn snake
Re: Professional Rescues [Re: Catman] #906885
02/14/10 11:38 AM
02/14/10 11:38 AM
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 235
Colorado
Catman Offline
Glider Explorer
Catman  Offline
Glider Explorer

Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 235
Colorado
Its called volunteering. Its the same with wildlife rescue. You can either be a licensed rescue or volunteer for a licensed rescue . You cant just go out and call your self a rescue,rescue animals, collect donations...


1 son
1 wife
5 Cats
2 dogs Twiggy and spot
6 sugargliders:Ray,Cinnamon,Nick,Holly,jasmine,and bella
3 rescued gliders with no names
1 corn snake
Re: Professional Rescues [Re: Catman] #906966
02/14/10 03:18 PM
02/14/10 03:18 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 5,916
Cornersville TN I'M HOME :)
cyndiekb Offline
Serious Glideritis
cyndiekb  Offline
Serious Glideritis

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 5,916
Cornersville TN I'M HOME :)
I loves Jamie~!! note to self check time to catch up with her!


I can't/wont take in gliders but I do help with rail roads and funds as I can.

We have breeders who should have USDA licenses that don't here on the forum so not sure how the rescues would be expected to have them. We know we don't fix the females and even if they have 4 that doesn't mean they are breeding (since they shouldn't by standard) so should they be required to get a license? Maybe a different type of rescue license I don't know about that I never tried to do get in to that part.

What I would like to see is a standard sheet for the person picking up a glider. Stating what they are getting, what is expected to happen with the gliders. Where they are going, what goes with them, in the event of injury or escape what the plan is. I railroaded a glider one time that I should have stopped at my vet and had put down. That poor glider died a slow painful death after being attacked by a colony. I cried the entire trip knowing she needed to be helped across the bridge but I was not my place to do that. OR was it. I will if it ever happens again simply because that is what she needed most from me and I failed her. We need protection for glider in this situation and the people moving them.


cyndiekb

I heart & miss you HALEY

My runaways 4/04 Lilo, 5/04 Dash & Angel

angel Sprite Says GO STEALTH!! at
AtticWorx
Re: Professional Rescues [Re: cyndiekb] #906972
02/14/10 03:31 PM
02/14/10 03:31 PM
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 235
Colorado
Catman Offline
Glider Explorer
Catman  Offline
Glider Explorer

Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 235
Colorado
Originally Posted By: cyndiekb

We have breeders who should have USDA licenses that don't here on the forum so not sure how the rescues would be expected to have them.


You are right and thats wrong! If you want to be respected for what you do, it should be 100% legit IMO.


1 son
1 wife
5 Cats
2 dogs Twiggy and spot
6 sugargliders:Ray,Cinnamon,Nick,Holly,jasmine,and bella
3 rescued gliders with no names
1 corn snake
Re: Professional Rescues [Re: Catman] #907022
02/14/10 05:22 PM
02/14/10 05:22 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,748
80 acres of paradise in KS
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
Dancing  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,748
80 acres of paradise in KS
We have some Care Sheets and Inventory Sheets over at A4G for use when moving gliders.

Care Sheets

Inventory Sheet


These were created for anyone to use.


620-704-9109
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.
Re: Professional Rescues [Re: Dancing] #907024
02/14/10 05:24 PM
02/14/10 05:24 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,748
80 acres of paradise in KS
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
Dancing  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,748
80 acres of paradise in KS
And CKB,

Quote:
OR was it.


Yes, in this case I do think it was your place but should have come with full documentation from the vet as to the circumstances and such. There is never any reason to allow any animal to suffer when there is no hope of a sustained quality life.


620-704-9109
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.
Re: Professional Rescues [Re: Dancing] #907028
02/14/10 05:36 PM
02/14/10 05:36 PM
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 43,285
LittleRock, AR USA
KarenE Online /gc/lgc
Owner
KarenE  Online /Gc/Lgc
Owner

Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 43,285
LittleRock, AR USA
Hindsight is always 20/20, and I'm sure that Cyndie has beat herself up over her decision more than we will ever know. We all know how much she loves these little ones.

I would hate to see us get sidetracked here. You know how easily that happens to us ummm mature ladies roflmao



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Re: Professional Rescues [Re: KarenE] #907032
02/14/10 05:43 PM
02/14/10 05:43 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,855
Orlando, FL
Tish84 Offline
Glider Slave
Tish84  Offline
Glider Slave

Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,855
Orlando, FL
USDA does help with protocols, but I believe a 501c3 is better as it's protocols seem to be more stringent. (Case in point....(PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets is USDA, but not 501c3; they;d never qualify going that route plus I'm sure it wouldn't be lucrative for them and we all know they are all about the $$)

Last edited by Tish84; 02/14/10 05:44 PM.

TISH

Lana (Siberian Husky)
2 Turtles
Bunny
:bb: :leu: :wfb: :rtmo: :cream:
Lily Fawkes Kingsley Ice Regulus Romeo Mimkin Saturn Jupiter Taiyou Kat Julianna

Glide Free My little Lily And Ice (Miss you every day)


www.fancysuggies.com
Re: Professional Rescues [Re: Tish84] #907045
02/14/10 06:00 PM
02/14/10 06:00 PM
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 235
Colorado
Catman Offline
Glider Explorer
Catman  Offline
Glider Explorer

Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 235
Colorado
Regardless of which way you go rescues or breeder, if you are going to do it you should have to follow all the laws. A lot of the non-profit rescues that deal with animals(wild or exotic) are also USDA licensed.


1 son
1 wife
5 Cats
2 dogs Twiggy and spot
6 sugargliders:Ray,Cinnamon,Nick,Holly,jasmine,and bella
3 rescued gliders with no names
1 corn snake
Re: Professional Rescues [Re: Tish84] #907058
02/14/10 06:17 PM
02/14/10 06:17 PM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,640
Mims, Florida, USA
hushpuppy Offline OP
Glider Slave
hushpuppy  Offline OP
Glider Slave

Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,640
Mims, Florida, USA
Originally Posted By: Tish84
USDA does help with protocols, but I believe a 501c3 is better as it's protocols seem to be more stringent. (Case in point....PPP is USDA, but not 501c3; they;d never qualify going that route plus I'm sure it wouldn't be lucrative for them and we all know they are all about the $$)


Um Tish, Perfect Pocket Pets is incorporated as a for profit business in the state of Florida. To be 501c3 an organization would first need to incorporate as an non profit in their state and then file with the IRS to become a charitable org. They are both corportations and they are both businesses, but one is for profit and the other is more for charity. Hmmm, I don't know if that is clear or if I just made it worse.


Anita Rae
StealthWheels, MagnumWheels and more at Atticworx

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Re: Professional Rescues [Re: Tish84] #907059
02/14/10 06:18 PM
02/14/10 06:18 PM
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 235
Colorado
Catman Offline
Glider Explorer
Catman  Offline
Glider Explorer

Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 235
Colorado
Originally Posted By: Tish84
USDA does help with protocols, but I believe a 501c3 is better as it's protocols seem to be more stringent. (Case in point....PPP is USDA, but not 501c3; they;d never qualify going that route plus I'm sure it wouldn't be lucrative for them and we all know they are all about the $$)


You are comparing apples and oranges here. A 501(c)3 status org and a USDA licensed business are totally different.


1 son
1 wife
5 Cats
2 dogs Twiggy and spot
6 sugargliders:Ray,Cinnamon,Nick,Holly,jasmine,and bella
3 rescued gliders with no names
1 corn snake
Re: Professional Rescues [Re: Catman] #907066
02/14/10 06:25 PM
02/14/10 06:25 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 5,916
Cornersville TN I'M HOME :)
cyndiekb Offline
Serious Glideritis
cyndiekb  Offline
Serious Glideritis

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 5,916
Cornersville TN I'M HOME :)
Is the 501c3 rescue required to also have a USDA license??


cyndiekb

I heart & miss you HALEY

My runaways 4/04 Lilo, 5/04 Dash & Angel

angel Sprite Says GO STEALTH!! at
AtticWorx
Re: Professional Rescues [Re: cyndiekb] #907077
02/14/10 06:37 PM
02/14/10 06:37 PM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,640
Mims, Florida, USA
hushpuppy Offline OP
Glider Slave
hushpuppy  Offline OP
Glider Slave

Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,640
Mims, Florida, USA
No, the 501c3 is simply a financial/business structure. It has nothing to do with USDA. You could open many kinds of charitable organizations that have nothing to do with animals. So USDA license would not be required in your 501c3 application.


Anita Rae
StealthWheels, MagnumWheels and more at Atticworx

Play with us on Facebook



Re: Professional Rescues [Re: cyndiekb] #907080
02/14/10 06:38 PM
02/14/10 06:38 PM
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 235
Colorado
Catman Offline
Glider Explorer
Catman  Offline
Glider Explorer

Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 235
Colorado
It depends on what you are rescuing and what you do with the rescue(charge or donation).


1 son
1 wife
5 Cats
2 dogs Twiggy and spot
6 sugargliders:Ray,Cinnamon,Nick,Holly,jasmine,and bella
3 rescued gliders with no names
1 corn snake
Re: Professional Rescues [Re: cyndiekb] #907083
02/14/10 06:40 PM
02/14/10 06:40 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 5,916
Cornersville TN I'M HOME :)
cyndiekb Offline
Serious Glideritis
cyndiekb  Offline
Serious Glideritis

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 5,916
Cornersville TN I'M HOME :)
Dancing I already knew that but this was a few years ago when I second guessed my position/power and cared how I was perceived in the community. Had I not been taking that glider to Bourbon for her to care for it I would have made the vet stop. Bourbon did agree with me when I got there it would have been the right thing to do. These things are how we learn.

These are why we need a standard. So many jump in with all heart and no experience. I hope no one else has to go through that like I did but IF they do we need ways to cover the person.


cyndiekb

I heart & miss you HALEY

My runaways 4/04 Lilo, 5/04 Dash & Angel

angel Sprite Says GO STEALTH!! at
AtticWorx
Re: Professional Rescues [Re: Catman] #907093
02/14/10 06:48 PM
02/14/10 06:48 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 15,514
Long Island, NY
gliderdad79 Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
gliderdad79  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 15,514
Long Island, NY
Originally Posted By: Catman
It depends on what you are rescuing and what you do with the rescue(charge or donation).


I was under the impression, if you have your 501 you cannot 'require' a donation??


Eddie

In the Tropics somewhere between the port of indecision and southeast of disorder!

"Great people talk about ideas. Average people talk about things. Small people talk about other people."

One day your life will flash before your eyes. Make sure its worth watching!
Re: Professional Rescues [Re: gliderdad79] #907097
02/14/10 06:53 PM
02/14/10 06:53 PM
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 235
Colorado
Catman Offline
Glider Explorer
Catman  Offline
Glider Explorer

Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 235
Colorado
Originally Posted By: gliderdad79
Originally Posted By: Catman
It depends on what you are rescuing and what you do with the rescue(charge or donation).


I was under the impression, if you have your 501 you cannot 'require' a donation??


You can "charge a price" or "accept a donation".


1 son
1 wife
5 Cats
2 dogs Twiggy and spot
6 sugargliders:Ray,Cinnamon,Nick,Holly,jasmine,and bella
3 rescued gliders with no names
1 corn snake
Re: Professional Rescues [Re: Catman] #907100
02/14/10 07:00 PM
02/14/10 07:00 PM
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 235
Colorado
Catman Offline
Glider Explorer
Catman  Offline
Glider Explorer

Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 235
Colorado
If you go to a non-profit humane society they still require a "donation" or adoption fee. I'm not really sure what the difference is.


1 son
1 wife
5 Cats
2 dogs Twiggy and spot
6 sugargliders:Ray,Cinnamon,Nick,Holly,jasmine,and bella
3 rescued gliders with no names
1 corn snake
Re: Professional Rescues [Re: Catman] #907103
02/14/10 07:07 PM
02/14/10 07:07 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 5,916
Cornersville TN I'M HOME :)
cyndiekb Offline
Serious Glideritis
cyndiekb  Offline
Serious Glideritis

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 5,916
Cornersville TN I'M HOME :)
Our local pound is 501c3 and it is 65 bucks to get a dog. They say it covers the spay/neuter cost but you pay it even if the animal is already fixed when it was donated. So I understand the charging, If no money comes in you cant keep feeding the fur ones. What is reasonable operating expense should be covered. The 501 should not line pockets though. When We had the SRR I had a business major tell me there is a lot of money in non profits and they would have loved to show me how I could do it. I told then we are 100% NOT PAID sorry smile. People like Jamie and Val are in this for the gliders. At the same time we should not expect them to starve because we think they should spend their own money feeding the animals.

I have the land and thought about putting up a warehouse type facility for gliders. Then I thought I have to feed and clean and vet care everyone ( I call it my momentary brain toot) That is not my roll. I like many others here want to be the beams of support for those who do have the calling to rescue.


I just wonder by law is the rescue still required to have a license per USDA because they do have more that 4 females in house at any given time. We know not all males come fixed. It is just the wording and play on the rules.


cyndiekb

I heart & miss you HALEY

My runaways 4/04 Lilo, 5/04 Dash & Angel

angel Sprite Says GO STEALTH!! at
AtticWorx
Re: Professional Rescues [Re: cyndiekb] #907116
02/14/10 07:33 PM
02/14/10 07:33 PM
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 235
Colorado
Catman Offline
Glider Explorer
Catman  Offline
Glider Explorer

Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 235
Colorado
They way i read the USDA laws
"Any person operating or desiring to operate as a dealer must have
a valid Class A (breeder) or Class B (broker) license. [2.1(a)(1)].

selling of any wild/exotic animals, excluding hoofstock,
for:
< pets
< exhibition
< researc"

The law does not state how many breeding females in this part of the law, just if you sell exotic or wild animals. This explains why my local pet store wont even sell 1 glider.

It does say "NOTE: Persons with 3 or less breeding females are
exempt"

So if your not breeding them, I think you are exempt to some extent.


1 son
1 wife
5 Cats
2 dogs Twiggy and spot
6 sugargliders:Ray,Cinnamon,Nick,Holly,jasmine,and bella
3 rescued gliders with no names
1 corn snake
Re: Professional Rescues [Re: Catman] #907119
02/14/10 07:35 PM
02/14/10 07:35 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,855
Orlando, FL
Tish84 Offline
Glider Slave
Tish84  Offline
Glider Slave

Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,855
Orlando, FL
The part that confuses me is that even if they are not actively breeding aren't they still breedable if not fixed. At that point do they still count in that definition.


TISH

Lana (Siberian Husky)
2 Turtles
Bunny
:bb: :leu: :wfb: :rtmo: :cream:
Lily Fawkes Kingsley Ice Regulus Romeo Mimkin Saturn Jupiter Taiyou Kat Julianna

Glide Free My little Lily And Ice (Miss you every day)


www.fancysuggies.com
Re: Professional Rescues [Re: Catman] #907122
02/14/10 07:39 PM
02/14/10 07:39 PM
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 235
Colorado
Catman Offline
Glider Explorer
Catman  Offline
Glider Explorer

Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 235
Colorado


1 son
1 wife
5 Cats
2 dogs Twiggy and spot
6 sugargliders:Ray,Cinnamon,Nick,Holly,jasmine,and bella
3 rescued gliders with no names
1 corn snake
Re: Professional Rescues [Re: Catman] #907125
02/14/10 07:40 PM
02/14/10 07:40 PM
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 235
Colorado
Catman Offline
Glider Explorer
Catman  Offline
Glider Explorer

Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 235
Colorado
They say "breeding females " not breedable(sp?).


1 son
1 wife
5 Cats
2 dogs Twiggy and spot
6 sugargliders:Ray,Cinnamon,Nick,Holly,jasmine,and bella
3 rescued gliders with no names
1 corn snake
Re: Professional Rescues [Re: Tish84] #907127
02/14/10 07:42 PM
02/14/10 07:42 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 15,514
Long Island, NY
gliderdad79 Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
gliderdad79  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 15,514
Long Island, NY
Originally Posted By: Tish84
The part that confuses me is that even if they are not actively breeding aren't they still breedable if not fixed. At that point do they still count in that definition.


I could be wrong, but if I am remembering correctly at the 05 SGGA the USDA speaker said you will get a different answer from each inspector. I think I remember him saying if you have more than 3 females that could breed, it would be best to have your USDA license.


Eddie

In the Tropics somewhere between the port of indecision and southeast of disorder!

"Great people talk about ideas. Average people talk about things. Small people talk about other people."

One day your life will flash before your eyes. Make sure its worth watching!
Re: Professional Rescues [Re: Catman] #907130
02/14/10 07:44 PM
02/14/10 07:44 PM
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 43,285
LittleRock, AR USA
KarenE Online /gc/lgc
Owner
KarenE  Online /Gc/Lgc
Owner

Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 43,285
LittleRock, AR USA
I wish I could remember which SGGA the USDA spokesperson explained the change to us, but my ole brain won't bring it right now.

I do remember they were very specific that if you have more than three females able to breed on the premises, and you are a breeder, you must have a USDA license.

I know that Teresa was there and probably Cyndiekb so correct me if I am wrong. I remember being astounded that different species were counted together rather than separately.

Or have I lost it with the explanation.


Your Sugar Glider Resource Center
Sugar Glider Help


Re: Professional Rescues [Re: KarenE] #907134
02/14/10 07:50 PM
02/14/10 07:50 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 15,514
Long Island, NY
gliderdad79 Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
gliderdad79  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 15,514
Long Island, NY
Originally Posted By: KarenE
I wish I could remember which SGGA the USDA spokesperson explained the change to us, but my ole brain won't bring it right now.

I do remember they were very specific that if you have more than three females able to breed on the premises, and you are a breeder, you must have a USDA license.

I know that Teresa was there and probably Cyndiekb so correct me if I am wrong. I remember being astounded that different species were counted together rather than separately.

Or have I lost it with the explanation.


That was 05 wink


Eddie

In the Tropics somewhere between the port of indecision and southeast of disorder!

"Great people talk about ideas. Average people talk about things. Small people talk about other people."

One day your life will flash before your eyes. Make sure its worth watching!
Re: Professional Rescues [Re: KarenE] #907137
02/14/10 07:53 PM
02/14/10 07:53 PM
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 235
Colorado
Catman Offline
Glider Explorer
Catman  Offline
Glider Explorer

Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 235
Colorado
Thats not how the law reads. I could have 1 cage with 4-5 females and not have to have a USDA license. It clearly states "breeding females" and not sexually mature females.


1 son
1 wife
5 Cats
2 dogs Twiggy and spot
6 sugargliders:Ray,Cinnamon,Nick,Holly,jasmine,and bella
3 rescued gliders with no names
1 corn snake
Re: Professional Rescues [Re: Catman] #907142
02/14/10 07:59 PM
02/14/10 07:59 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 15,514
Long Island, NY
gliderdad79 Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
gliderdad79  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 15,514
Long Island, NY
Originally Posted By: Catman
Thats not how the law reads. I could have 1 cage with 4-5 females and not have to have a USDA license. It clearly states "breeding females" and not sexually mature females.



Introduce a male into your household and those 4-5 females become breedable.


Eddie

In the Tropics somewhere between the port of indecision and southeast of disorder!

"Great people talk about ideas. Average people talk about things. Small people talk about other people."

One day your life will flash before your eyes. Make sure its worth watching!
Re: Professional Rescues [Re: gliderdad79] #907145
02/14/10 08:02 PM
02/14/10 08:02 PM
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 43,285
LittleRock, AR USA
KarenE Online /gc/lgc
Owner
KarenE  Online /Gc/Lgc
Owner

Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 43,285
LittleRock, AR USA
Originally Posted By: gliderdad79


That was 05 wink


'05 was a very very busy year roflmao


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