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Producing Sterile Lines
#975278
07/14/10 07:36 PM
07/14/10 07:36 PM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 4,645 Ohio
Guerita135
OP
Glider Addict
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OP
Glider Addict
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 4,645
Ohio
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I just wanted to send out a friendly reminder to breeders in the glider community to please double check your mosaics' lineages to ensure that they really are from non-sterile lines. Just within the last couple weeks I've seen about 10 joeys listed as being from "non-sterile" lines, when, in fact, they are not! And in every single case the breeders were completely unaware of their gliders being from sterile lines! 9 times out of 10 those gliders are from Priscilla and in some cases they are older gliders from Stacie Jolley. Stacie used to have her babies from Goliath(a sterile-line male mosaic who has proven to not be sterile) as "non-sterile". However, when one of her customers got flack because of it and was having a hard time selling her joey as "non-sterile", then both Stacie and Priscilla were contacted and it was decided to call the "proven" sterile lines "Producing Sterile Lines" rather then "non-sterile". So, people who got Stacie's babies from Goliath BEFORE the change are often unaware that their babies are from a sterile line. It was done to prevent confusion so that customers were informed. Lately I've seen sterile-line mosaics paired with cremino lines, platinum lines, albino lines, leu lines, and even TRUELLY non-sterile lines! So, please, everyone double-check the lineages on your babies and if you're not sure if they're from sterile lines, then feel free to post their lineages here and we can figure it out! Also, be sure to check the FULL lineage ALLLLL the way back, not just the first couple generations.
~Nicole~ Proudly enslaved by lots of silly suggies, 3 crazy kitties, a huffy hedgie, and a pretty puppy!
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Re: Producing Sterile Lines
[Re: Guerita135]
#975283
07/14/10 07:46 PM
07/14/10 07:46 PM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,983 Denton, TX
ValkyrieMome
Glideritis Anonymous
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Glideritis Anonymous
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,983
Denton, TX
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I think not everyone knows what the "sterile lines" are. I know I don't. If my breeder said it was "non-sterile lines" - I'd have to believe them!
Alden "Animals can communicate quite well. And they do. And generally speaking, they are ignored." Alice Walker
Mom to Valhalla; 6 cats; 1 macaw; 2 hedgehogs; and very many great gliders!
(plus the 2 skin kids) valkyriegliders.com
Kyrie, nothing will ever fill the hole you left in my heart.
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Re: Producing Sterile Lines
[Re: ValkyrieMome]
#975299
07/14/10 08:30 PM
07/14/10 08:30 PM
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JamieInWA
Unregistered
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JamieInWA
Unregistered
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Yeah, I wish we could have them listed somewhere. Aside from asking someone with more experience than me, I wouldn't know how to find out.
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Re: Producing Sterile Lines
[Re: ]
#975304
07/14/10 08:44 PM
07/14/10 08:44 PM
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,710 Washington
tjlong
Glider Slave
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Glider Slave
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,710
Washington
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There was a thread on 5/08/10 started by NGS about Mosaic lines. I don't know how to copy the thread link. Sorry. Jamie, you could do it! Guerita135 gave a wealth of information on that thread! It is definitely worth a read.
Last edited by tjlong; 07/14/10 08:48 PM.
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Re: Producing Sterile Lines
[Re: Glide_Bye_Lily]
#975311
07/14/10 08:49 PM
07/14/10 08:49 PM
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JamieInWA
Unregistered
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JamieInWA
Unregistered
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Thanks. I was just going to post that.
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Re: Producing Sterile Lines
[Re: Kayla]
#975320
07/14/10 09:26 PM
07/14/10 09:26 PM
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,269 WI
Glide_Bye_Lily
Glider Guardian
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Glider Guardian
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,269
WI
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There are a few- you can find a list of names in the thread I posted. This is a quote from Tyler in that thread. I hope it helps: Tilly is a sterile line, champ is not sterile. Tilly was paired with another male, a WF named casino and produced sterility.
There are many different sterile mosaic lines, there is Sally, Ms. Leu, Lollie, Tilly, Helena, Heidi, Bianca and maybe a few others.
Priscilla took on only about 8 mosaics when she got them from Helen. It was believed that to produce mosaics there were hets. So that is how the sterility came about from continuous inbreeding.
Champ most likely came from the mosaic line, several joeys from the original mosaics appeared champagne.
I know Mother white was wild caught. She didn't live long. I think when she came in, a few others did-some of which might have been the ones listed above....not sure though. Odds are they are all related. What are the odds of catching such a different color in the wild and them not being related.
Anyways, we have snow white who is producing, this is most likely b/c it hadn't been inbred to the point of sterility.
A majority of mikes stuff came from helens line, so again related to the other mosaics.
There is NO record of any of the breedings done before priscilla got them. The records were according to helen eaten by her praire dogs. I doubt she kept records of the breedings anyways as it was not common or known to do so many years ago.
So there is my knowledge based on the 2 years working at TPG.
Take it or leave it,... but thats what i know!!!
Last edited by Glide_Bye_Lily; 07/14/10 09:30 PM. Reason: add info
Allie
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Re: Producing Sterile Lines
[Re: Kayla]
#975328
07/14/10 09:39 PM
07/14/10 09:39 PM
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,269 WI
Glide_Bye_Lily
Glider Guardian
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Glider Guardian
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,269
WI
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I don't see any sterility in your glider's lineage. Lynsie knows what she's talking about with mosaics. She'd let you know if there was sterility in the line.
Last edited by Glide_Bye_Lily; 07/14/10 09:39 PM.
Allie
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Re: Producing Sterile Lines
[Re: Kayla]
#975329
07/14/10 09:40 PM
07/14/10 09:40 PM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,983 Denton, TX
ValkyrieMome
Glideritis Anonymous
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Glideritis Anonymous
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,983
Denton, TX
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That doesn't really answer it for me!
We are supposed to check the "whole lineage, not just a few generations."
Are the names Tyler listed the only Sterile lines?
So if none of these gliders "Sally, Ms. Leu, Lollie, Tilly, Helena, Heidi, Bianca" is in my glider's lineage, he isn't from sterile lines?
Alden "Animals can communicate quite well. And they do. And generally speaking, they are ignored." Alice Walker
Mom to Valhalla; 6 cats; 1 macaw; 2 hedgehogs; and very many great gliders!
(plus the 2 skin kids) valkyriegliders.com
Kyrie, nothing will ever fill the hole you left in my heart.
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Re: Producing Sterile Lines
[Re: ValkyrieMome]
#975330
07/14/10 09:50 PM
07/14/10 09:50 PM
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,269 WI
Glide_Bye_Lily
Glider Guardian
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Glider Guardian
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,269
WI
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That doesn't really answer it for me! I'm sorry- I really don't know what you're looking for then.
We are supposed to check the "whole lineage, not just a few generations."
Are the names Tyler listed the only Sterile lines? I believe they are the known sterile lines.
So if none of these gliders "Sally, Ms. Leu, Lollie, Tilly, Helena, Heidi, Bianca" is in my glider's lineage, he isn't from sterile lines? In theory no- he isn't from sterile lines. Unless there are others that are not known.
Allie
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Re: Producing Sterile Lines
[Re: Glide_Bye_Lily]
#975331
07/14/10 09:52 PM
07/14/10 09:52 PM
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 542 Luverne, Minnesota
B19
Glider Lover
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Glider Lover
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 542
Luverne, Minnesota
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Thanks for all the great info guys! It is very helpful!!
Brandi Loving mother to: "Ziggy" & "Teddy" "Pebbles" 1 chocolate Lab: "Gracie Mae" 1 Min Pin: "Daisy Mae" 2 horses: "Scoots" & "Sisco"
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Re: Producing Sterile Lines
[Re: Kayla]
#975346
07/14/10 10:15 PM
07/14/10 10:15 PM
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,414 Minneapolis, MN
wildlifeangel
Glider Slave
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Glider Slave
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,414
Minneapolis, MN
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I was told that Preston was from NON-sterile lines. But when Nicole and I had a conversation, it was found that because he had Kat in his lineage, he WAS from sterile lines. I was very upset when I found out, as he is only a couple generations out from sterility. The breeder did NOT tell me he was from sterile lines. So, at this point I'm not sure WHAT to do with my joeys! Preston is producing, his dad Kale produced, and Freddy produced... this is the only link to sterile lines. It looks Kat is the only link to sterility... but there is no sterility in him, his dad, or his grandpa... help?!
Last edited by wildlifeangel; 07/14/10 10:22 PM. Reason: added info
Nadine Adam-Eve Starsky-Bianca Gabriel-Charity Barrington-Bailey Travis-Rose-Ruby Justice-Mercy Natalia-Carmella-Cayden Minka-Marco Reagan-Jocelynn Donnovin-Selina Kaluah-Keeko-Emily-Monty-Lexy-Kevin-Raven-Skeeter www.tspsugar.com
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Re: Producing Sterile Lines
[Re: wildlifeangel]
#975352
07/14/10 10:32 PM
07/14/10 10:32 PM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,983 Denton, TX
ValkyrieMome
Glideritis Anonymous
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Glideritis Anonymous
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,983
Denton, TX
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But Kat is not in that list from Tyler?
So - there are others?
This is really frustrating! Why isn't there a complete list somewhere of the sterile lines!
Alden "Animals can communicate quite well. And they do. And generally speaking, they are ignored." Alice Walker
Mom to Valhalla; 6 cats; 1 macaw; 2 hedgehogs; and very many great gliders!
(plus the 2 skin kids) valkyriegliders.com
Kyrie, nothing will ever fill the hole you left in my heart.
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Re: Producing Sterile Lines
[Re: ValkyrieMome]
#975358
07/14/10 10:41 PM
07/14/10 10:41 PM
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,269 WI
Glide_Bye_Lily
Glider Guardian
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Glider Guardian
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,269
WI
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Kat is the granddaughter of Tilly.
As was said, you have to look at the entire lineage- not just a few generations.
Allie
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Re: Producing Sterile Lines
[Re: wildlifeangel]
#975364
07/14/10 10:53 PM
07/14/10 10:53 PM
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,269 WI
Glide_Bye_Lily
Glider Guardian
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Glider Guardian
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,269
WI
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I was told that Preston was from NON-sterile lines. But when Nicole and I had a conversation, it was found that because he had Kat in his lineage, he WAS from sterile lines. I was very upset when I found out, as he is only a couple generations out from sterility. The breeder did NOT tell me he was from sterile lines. So, at this point I'm not sure WHAT to do with my joeys! Preston is producing, his dad Kale produced, and Freddy produced... this is the only link to sterile lines. It looks Kat is the only link to sterility... but there is no sterility in him, his dad, or his grandpa... help?! Even though they are producing you still have to make it known that the joeys are from sterile lines. You can sell them under the title of "producing sterile lines" if you choose to. Generally speaking it is thought that if a male glider from sterile lines produces there is no longer a possibility of sterility being passed on to his offspring. Sterility is thought to be an X linked trait- similar to color blindness or hemophilia in humans. This is why the females can pass it on but are generally not sterile themselves. I'm very sorry this happened. It may be possible the breeder didn't know their gliders were from sterile lines or thought that since their male was producing, they no longer had to make buyers aware of the sterility.
Last edited by Glide_Bye_Lily; 07/14/10 10:54 PM. Reason: oops
Allie
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Re: Producing Sterile Lines
[Re: Glide_Bye_Lily]
#975369
07/14/10 10:59 PM
07/14/10 10:59 PM
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,414 Minneapolis, MN
wildlifeangel
Glider Slave
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Glider Slave
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,414
Minneapolis, MN
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What is the opinion of breeders on producing sterile lines? (Look up PLL, those will be my joeys). I want to know opinions on what breeders would do with this trio... because I had hoped to breed the joeys eventually...
Nadine Adam-Eve Starsky-Bianca Gabriel-Charity Barrington-Bailey Travis-Rose-Ruby Justice-Mercy Natalia-Carmella-Cayden Minka-Marco Reagan-Jocelynn Donnovin-Selina Kaluah-Keeko-Emily-Monty-Lexy-Kevin-Raven-Skeeter www.tspsugar.com
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Re: Producing Sterile Lines
[Re: gliderboy4life]
#975390
07/14/10 11:34 PM
07/14/10 11:34 PM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 4,645 Ohio
Guerita135
OP
Glider Addict
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OP
Glider Addict
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 4,645
Ohio
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Alden, if you post your lineage here then we could all take a look at it for you. Some lineages are very trickey, especially if they're listed in The Pet Glider Database because if a relative doesn't have a name or is unknown then it's simply left blank, so you have to be very careful and always double-check it with a few breeders who are familiar with the original lines. EXAMPLE: I bought a glider from sterile lines, but this is what her lineage looks like in the Pet Glider Database- http://www.thepetglider.com/pedigree/modules/animal/pedigree.php?pedid=1067As you can see, at a glance it would seem that she's from the non-sterile mosaic line. However, if you look closely you'll see that her grandfather, Poncho, who is from Mac and Cheese, is a gray/100% Leu het and NOT a mosaic. The grandmother is the mosaic and since she had no name then she wasn't listed. However, here's what the lineage looks like from the breeder: http://justforfuzzies.com/pedigrees/Nadine_pedi.htmlAs you can see, she's actually from sterile lines. So, if you are at all unsure about a lineage or see lots of blanks then do not hesitate to get a second, or third, or FORTH opinion! Thanks for that list Tyler! I'm not good with names and can never remember all the sterile-line gliders. KAYLA- your boy is from a non-sterile line.
~Nicole~ Proudly enslaved by lots of silly suggies, 3 crazy kitties, a huffy hedgie, and a pretty puppy!
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Re: Producing Sterile Lines
[Re: Guerita135]
#975396
07/14/10 11:41 PM
07/14/10 11:41 PM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 4,645 Ohio
Guerita135
OP
Glider Addict
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OP
Glider Addict
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 4,645
Ohio
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Since the sterility came about as a result of inbreeding, then it could be something recessive and if a joey from sterile lines(whether they are producing or not) were to be bred with another glider that has the same recessive gene then it could, once again, bring out the sterility. So if someone is going to breed a glider from sterile lines then it must be done carefully, which is why it's important to be informed. Whether a sterile-line glider is producing or not, breeders need to tell their customers that those joeys are originally from sterile lines. It sad enough seeing gorgeous little mosaics being born that are sterile. I would hate to start seeing sterile creminos, leus, platinums, etc...
~Nicole~ Proudly enslaved by lots of silly suggies, 3 crazy kitties, a huffy hedgie, and a pretty puppy!
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Re: Producing Sterile Lines
[Re: Guerita135]
#975454
07/15/10 01:52 AM
07/15/10 01:52 AM
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,414 Minneapolis, MN
wildlifeangel
Glider Slave
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Glider Slave
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,414
Minneapolis, MN
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To clarify, I indicated Kat because she was the one, grandchild of Tilly. Nicole told me to look for Kat because she was visible in the first glance of Preston's pedigree.
His mom was from Leu lines and he has a small % het, so originally I was hoping to be able to breed his joeys to the joeys from the trio I am getting next month... but that won't be happening now!
How should that effect price? For an identical glider that is from sterile lines vs one from non-sterile lines? I just want to have competitive prices and still be fair because they can't breed to other colored lines...
also, does anyone know of a contract clause that you can forbid them from breeding the joeys TO other colors?
Nadine Adam-Eve Starsky-Bianca Gabriel-Charity Barrington-Bailey Travis-Rose-Ruby Justice-Mercy Natalia-Carmella-Cayden Minka-Marco Reagan-Jocelynn Donnovin-Selina Kaluah-Keeko-Emily-Monty-Lexy-Kevin-Raven-Skeeter www.tspsugar.com
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Re: Producing Sterile Lines
[Re: wildlifeangel]
#975746
07/15/10 04:16 PM
07/15/10 04:16 PM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 4,645 Ohio
Guerita135
OP
Glider Addict
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OP
Glider Addict
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 4,645
Ohio
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I seriously need to stop looking at gliders' lineages. It's not good for my health. :\ Today I was glancing around at some more mosaic joeys' lines that are in the classifieds and saw one that is a sterile-line mo from leu lines paired with a leu het. Personally, I don't agree with breeding the sterile lines, but if you ARE going to breed them, please be very careful when choosing a mate and, as Tyler has already said, do NOT cross them with other colored lines! Speaking of which...Lynsie, I noticed that you have a sterile-line mosaic paired with a leucistic. Did you realize that Doodle is from a sterile mosaic line? His grandma is Kat.
~Nicole~ Proudly enslaved by lots of silly suggies, 3 crazy kitties, a huffy hedgie, and a pretty puppy!
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Re: Producing Sterile Lines
[Re: Lynsie]
#976005
07/16/10 12:39 AM
07/16/10 12:39 AM
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,224 North Fort Worth - TX
jacknsally
Glider Addict
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Glider Addict
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,224
North Fort Worth - TX
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Nicole- poncho's mate is unknown but she's known to be a mosaic from sterile lines? With so many unknown breeders/owners in that family tree, how is one to know what is what with that line?
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